Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1785 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] kde network manager plasmoid pain
Ken Schneider - openSUSE said the following on 11/27/2011 09:49 AM:

The problem does not reside with postfix but with systemd. "systemd" is
the culprit that should _not_ have been forced as the default until it
was ready.

That's not entirely fair.
As I've said here before, I also run Fedora-15 which uses SystemD and
Grub2 and works well.

What puzzles me is why, when there is a pioneer to learn from - fedora -
the followers such as openSuse don't seem to benefit.

Does this sound the same as zypper, kde4 and pulseaudio that were forced
as defaults _before_ they were ready. Does anyone see a pattern here?

I wasn't running Fedora when pulseaudio came out.
Yes I had a problem with it on 11.2 but Felix solved that for me.
Thank you Felix.

KDE4 was another matter. .0 though .3 were definitely "beta", but
without that how would the problems have been worked out.?
Lets face it, people here are going on about "adequate testing" and the
only way to test all cases and a variety of hardware is to push out the
"alpha" and "beta" and release candidates and have people test them.

Here we have KDE4.4 that was great. Here we have 11.4 which is great.

My worry: we have 12.1 which is really 12.0 and its going what KDE did.
I look forward to the "great" 12.4 but I'm told that won't happen, it
will be 13.1 (which will really be 13.0).


Maybe I should by another drive and install 12.1 on it and do a sdiff
against fedora to see all the places 12.1 has the SystemD packages in
the wrong place (and so don't start properly) or has the dependency
wrong (so they don't start properly).

OBTW: I've removed Postfix from my Fedora machine and am using esmtp
instead. If anyone can help me do that with 11.4 or tell me how I will
have to do it with 12.x I will be grateful.

Because Postfix is removed from the fedora box I'm sorry I can't tell
you where/what it should be under 12.1, but if you want to ask about
other SystemD config, then

a) put fedora 15 or 16 up on your own virtual machine
and take a look how redhat does it -- they have it working

b) be one of the first 8 people to ask me.
I can't spend all my time replying but I'll answer 8 and only 8
specific questions about how it is on my redhat machine.

Guys; there's nothing wrong with SystemD. It does some nice stuff.
It gets round many problems and the startup time is amazing! Yes its a
learning curve, one I'm still on, but I'm pleased with it. OK, I met it
on a system - fedora 15 - where it "just works". But we should be able
to learn from that.

We all, as regular users, have a responsibility to our favorite
distribution to help out... it IS a community distribution after all.

Indeed. openSuse is still my favourite and favoured distribution. I
run others for historic reasons and for learning/amusement. In this
case I'd rather learn SystemD on a system where it works :-)

Not all of us are developers, but we are all users, and we can ALL
test... every one of us, even if it means installing a virtual machine
on a Sunday afternoon during the RC phase... commenting about how it
wasn't tested enough doesn't help matters one iota. :-(

And comparing something that doesn't work with something that does work
to discover the differences is also a good exercise. I different
circumstances I'd run two VMs :-) Sadly my laptop, my stable 11.4,
doesn't have enough disk and memory for that, so I'm using a Salvation
Army clunker to run Fedora with a small disk and lots of stuff NFS
mounted to the laptop to make up for the lack of space :-/
Don't laugh; it works! And it demonstrates the flexibility and power
of Linux.

If you *DO* have the space to run two VMs and do a side-by-side then try it.

You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell
whether a man is wise by his questions.
-- Naguib Mahfouz
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