Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1696 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Moving to IPv6
  • From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 06:07:44 -0400
  • Message-id: <1284372464.11111.18.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 12:10 +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Monday 13 September 2010 04:31:19 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 03:48 +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Monday 13 September 2010 03:23:04 James Knott wrote:
For whom? Currently ADSL companies advertise Internet access in my
area slightly more expensive than Ethenet providers for the same
download speed (and much slower upload speed).
In order to offer ethernet, you have to have cables capable of carrying
it. There are a lot of buildings and neighbourhoods that have lots of
phone cable but no cat5 or fibre.
What's the problem with stretching such cables? Currently at least 3
providers have their separate ethernet networks in my building.
You are repeatedly missing a *very* important point - you are talking
*about where YOU are*. Ethernet cabling in existing facilities is
extremely rare.
There is a *HUGE* cost in just labor and materials to deploying such a
network. Obviously where you are _somehow_ those organizations are
defraying that cost [subsidies, tax breaks, grants, etc...].
Are you talking about UTP cble? UTP cable is very cheap.

You are ignoring the cost of *LABOR*. Someone has to install it - and
they want to be paid. And for your network to work well it has to be
installed by someone who knows what they are doing [UTP is fairly
sensitive to a number of factors] - so they want to be paid a real wage.
And, of course, the employer has to pay compensation insurance [or the
local equivalent].

And you are still ignoring the legal costs [RIGHT-OF-WAY, see below].
One _cannot_ just "sling cable".

I have some experience with issues regarding transportation, and network
infrastructure suffers from one of the same major issues:
*RIGHT-OF-WAY* If you want to put a wire on a pole, under a road, under
a rail line, etc... you have to have RIGHT-OF-WAY from whatever
authority controls that impediment. That means you need *LAWYERS* to
build your network. Which may end up costing more than the physical
infrastructure.
The only way is via ADSL riding on
the phone lines or by the cable TV networks.
Why do you think cable TV coaxial(or anything) is better than UTP?
Nobody is saying it is. But it _is_ there, pretty universally. Cat-5
and fiber are nowhere near universal.
Coax cannot be compared with fiber or Cat-5. With coax you can only get about
10 Mbit/s - much lower even than UTP.

But installation was paid for 20 years ago.

To have cable TV you also have to make wiring.
But the wire was installed 20 years ago. Cat-5 didn't exist.
Only coax from attic to the flats.

You have to *get to the building* before the cable in the building even
matters.

In this country television is historically by radio shared between flats
by coaxial. Even if there were (or are) some cables connecting the
buildings to a district TV hub (there were sometime in 90s translations
from a district TV studio), it is unevident by whom such cables may be
owned and why they should be interested in Internet deal and even if they
agree how all customers would share one cable?
They are interesting for providing Internet because they are already
there. There are no RIGHT-OF-WAY issues. I just replace what is on
both ends of the wire and BAM - I have a network.
With 20-years-old coax? :-) And you compare it to fiber? How many flats
can you connect with such coax?

Thousands.

Only imagine: plain UTP ethernet cable has bandwidth 10-100 times greater
than any old wiring that could exist, even without optics and cat5
cables. If you want to provide modern cable TV with Internet, you still
have to provide optics to any building, so no difference from ethernet.
No, you can provide a large amount of service on existing cable with a
negligible installation cost; you just replace what is on both ends of
the wire.
You cannot make coax work as fiber.

No, but you can make it work as a network [there really is no need for
fiber's bandwidth].

It cost a lot to rewire an
area with a new cable type.
Which area do you mean? One building? Or a wider area?
City blocks, neighborhoods, industrial parks, etc... where you have to
cross roads, rail lines, rivers, and all manner of impediments you don't
own.

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