Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1276 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] ipconfrig--where?
  • From: "Brian K. White" <brian@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:37:24 -0400
  • Message-id: <4AC58384.4050203@xxxxxxxxx>

Anders Johansson wrote:
On Thursday 01 October 2009 22:10:54 Mike McMullin wrote:

Nifty, however in piston driven automobiles, there still exists the
crankshaft, the hand crank was replaced by an electric crank (Starter
motor?). ;)

Exactly my point. HOW DARE THEY!!!"§!"§!"!!!!!!!


This is a simple operation that used to work in EVERY CAR, and now they
you to PUSH your car until you get somewhere where they MIGHT have a new

THIS IS SO OBVIOUS PEOPLE!!!!!!! Why do engineers have to CHANGE WHAT WORKS!


Actually, I can start all of my vehicles without the starter. I do need
a tiny amount of battery juice to feed the alternator, or else no
sparkies, but I don't need the starter nor a tiny fraction of the
battery power needed to operate a starter.
As common as automatic transmissions are, they are in no way mandatory
nor desirable in all situations.
So, I don't have any.
Sure, internal combustion itself is probably going away eventually. So
what? At that time so will transmissions, both automatic and standard ,
and starters of any form, so it will be moot and I will not have any
reason to want to keep my manual transmission on a device that doesn't
even need any such thing as a transmission. The point is we are dealing
within a given context, that being unix-like-systems. There are any
number of ways to get computing tasks done and linux and other unix-like
systems are by far just the beginning, The first charming retarded baby
steps. And on a unix-like system, for better or for worse, it has been
long established that one will find ifconfig. You dont' have to like it,
you just have to realize it.

Progress? Yeah ok. ip is nice. But in the world of supporting a lot of
servers doing actual work for companies that rightly have no patience
for dinking around, common denominators are nicer. Common denominators
mean your staff spends more time producing and less time reading up and
performing experiments on the latest replacement for some command, or
reading up and performing experiments on this *nix's equivalent of some
command that that other *nix has. Common denominators mean fewer
mistakes, and in IT as with many other fields, mistakes can be
company-killing expensive.

ifconfig exists in almost exactly the same form on probably every single
unix-like os. It's on all the old commercial versions of unix that
didn't ship with compilers by default and ran so reliably that they are
still in production long after the manufacturers have gone away, all the
way up to it's on my new Palm Pre. Many of those other systems do not
have either ip, nor a compiler to compile it, nor any such thing as
/proc or /sys, and some have /proc but it has none of the extra and
poorly thought-out stuff that linux has in /proc, which linux is now
finally realizing and trying to move into /sys... But they all have
ifconfig, and ifconfig works almost exactly the same way on all of them
at least for common and simple things like simply reading the status of
the interfaces.

It's nice that new systems have ip. It's nice that ip may be a better
designed way of doing things. It's true that, if you happen to have the
luxury of only having to deal with new systems, and only linux, and you
will be off on some other adventure and unimpeachable when your lack of
foresight hurts your customer in a couple of years, it's probably better
to use the newer better tools across the board.

None of that grants the moral position to say that therefore no one
could possibly have a need for, or be better served by, ifconfig, or any
other traditional utility that has been in use a long time and is common
across a wide range of platforms.

Anyone who says "oh well any server that old should just be replaced
with a new one running linux!" (without knowing anything about such
servers or what they do or why or for whom etc... or even if the server
is old at all instead of say, a brand new and superior freebsd system)
automatically and immediately removes themselves from the discussion on
grounds of ignorance, incompetency and lack of basic wisdom or plain sense.


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