Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (2831 mails)

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Re: [SLE] Suggestion to improve OpenSUSE by providing only selected package!
  • From: Darryl Gregorash <raven@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:24:56 -0600
  • Message-id: <44BFCA78.3010806@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On 19/07/06 01:57, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
> Linux is not Windows, it is not like Windows, God forbid it should ever
>become like Windows.. Linux is all about choice, and if you strip out
>Gnome in favour of KDE only, you eliminate a great number of
>applications that many people prefer to use -- and vice versa.
>No one is forcing you to use one desktop over another, one mail server
>over another, one office suite over another, one browser or email client
>over another -- if you do not like the selections that are suggested to
>you, simply uncheck those during installation, and select others.
>It is all about choice, not forcing someone to use someone else's notion
>of the "ideal". The sooner you get your Windows mentality behind you,
>the better off you will be using Linux.
The OP has replied to me privately, writing:

>i think the "pattern" is one of great job in opensuse,
>and this "pattern"
>already implemented! look at SLED. some distro have
>done this selection
>yearly ago: Xandos (kde), ubuntu (gnome), kubuntu
>(kde), fox, etc.
>also, in Windows u can install any application, i am
>using Openoffice and
>Firefox in WinXP while still using OE for mail.
>You must not remove your Linux mentality but think
>about combine it with
>other positive os including: Windows, Solaris, Unix,
>etc... to produce
>better os with great usability and acceptable by
>users, if not acceptable
>then it's useless.
>this selection/pattern make us more productive and
>focus. again, you can not
>serve 2 master. that's why opensuse team define:
>must-have, should-have and
>may-have package.
A single choice of desktop hardly constitutes a "pattern" called
"desktops". A single choice of office suite hardly constitutes a
"pattern" called "office suites". If the OP is so bothered about having
too much choice in SuSE, then he should pick whichever distro comes
closest to his restricted list of personal choices, and switch to that.
I hope he will find such a distro that gives him every choice he wants,
otherwise he will be bugging that distro's mailing lists to make massive
changes to its package selections as he has been doing here. Good luck
in finding such a distribution.

Personally, I am quite capable of reading a list of choices, selecting
those I do want and rejecting those I do not. I am quite comfortable in
knowing that I can install Mozilla right from the installation source,
while someone else who prefers Opera can do the same. Neither of us has
to run off to some third-party source just because the distro developers
all think everyone should be using Konqueror. This is what a "pattern"
of selections is all about: when I choose the "pattern" called "desktop"
I am presented with a *choice* of desktops, and asked which one I prefer
to use. I am not presented with a single choice, and told... well,
wait... if there is only a single choice of desktop, then we can
dispense with this part and just go straight to installing it. Same goes
for the browser, email client, office suite, etc.. there's only one of
each, if the OP has his way, so why bother even telling the user
anything? Just go ahead and install it all.

The OP's own words show just how superior the current SuSE approach is:
Ubuntu comes with Gnome, which someone didn't like, so he took all the
Ubuntu source tree, changed everything over to KDE, and sent it out as
Kubuntu. Someone else needs to come along and make a new distro out of
all this, for all the people who don't like either Gnome or KDE,
preferring fvwm instead.

We can have real fun with all this: under the OP's plan, separate
distributions are needed for each of the following combinations (pick
one and only one from each list, including the possibility of having
none at all):

a) desktop: Gnome, KDE, fvwm (feel free to add a few of your own)
b) office suite: OO, Koffice (add a few here too)
c)browser: Mozilla/Seamonkey, Firefox, Opera (delete pattern if using
KDE, you already have Konqueror)
d) email agent: (delete pattern if using Mozilla/Seamonkey or KDE) mail,
mutt, Thunderbird, Sylpheed
e) database, with or without any at all: make up your own list (delete
pattern if offering an office suite)

Just think how much more fun we can have by adding in all the possible
kernel choices (32 or 64 bit, AMD or Intel, PPC, multiple cores/multiple
processors), including 2.4 for those who still have some old hardware
that the 2.6 kernels no longer recognize. Given the problems it has
caused for some, perhaps separate distributions are also needed for
kernels with, and without, ACPI support.

Why not just include it all in a single installation source, Mr Spider,
and trust that the user has the intelligence needed to choose which he
wants, and which he does not? Unless, of course, you feel the average
user is not intelligent enough to make such choices.

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