Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (5130 mails)

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Re: [SLE] SUSE Linux 10.1 - 32-bit or 64-bit
  • From: "Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 14:24:49 -0400
  • Message-id: <1147717489.3069.143.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 12:02 -0400, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> Bryan,
> I do not see any reference to PAE 52-bit in the AMD 64 Architecture
> programmer's manual. Can you point me at a reference to this.

Processor Address Extensions (PAE). It's all over the first two AMD
programmer manuals. Read the early tables on the different modes the
AMD x86-64 processors support. You'll see the following ...

x86-64 implements a 7-layer model using 52-bit registers with 48-bit
flat addressing (so it's compatible with the 16-bit segement + 32-bit
offset registers of the i486 TLB, which is capable of 48-bit virtual
addressing) on a 40-bit capable physical platform (the 40-bit limitation
comes from the core design of the original Athlon, based on the 40-bit
interconnect of the Digital Alpha EV6 platform). It is compatible with
legacy Intel Processor Address Extensions using 36-bit registers in
32-bit addressing model on a 36-bit capable physical platform (using
paging).

AMD _only_ covers how to enable x86-64 "Long Mode" in the kernel with
the resulting 52/48/40-bit model. It also talks about how x86-64 "Long
Mode" is able to run newer 48-bit as well as old 32-bit flat memory
model programs.

AMD mentioned a "flat 64-bit" model is a future consideration. But
considering it breaks compatibility with the i486 TLB, so you won't be
able to run 32-bit or PAE 36-bit programs, AMD has left it for later.
It's very likely that the next AMD (as well as Intel) designs with the
'Visor virtual approaches will implement an internal address model with
a "flat 64-bit" model, but then provide 20-bit (Virtual86), 24-bit
(Protected286), 32-bit (Protected 386/i486 TLB), PAE 36-bit (Pentium Pro
GTL+ 64GB) and 48-bit/PAE 52-bit (x86-64) virtual machine "instances" --
overcoming the 48-bit 256TB memory limitation of the current 48-bit, PAE
52-bit approach (as well as the new CPU overcoming the 40-bit 1TB
physical memory limitation of current Athlon 64 / Opteron)

But the AMD x86-64 manual do _not_ cover the more complex issues of
memory models in general. It does _not_, because it can_not_, discuss
and solve how 32-bit flat memory model programs (or those that are also
enable of PAE 36-bit for up to 64GB of RAM) can run 48-bit flat memory
(when the kernel uses PAE 52-bit addressing registers).

You'll _also_ find _any_ Intel manuals on IA-32 does the same with
regard to handling programs other memory models for the 8086 or 80286.
The Intel IA-32 manuals only talk about how Protected386, Protected286,
Real86 and Virtual86 modes work -- _not_ how you solve the greater issue
of programs/libraries/plug-ins of _different_ memory models using each
other.

Solving how programs of different memory models dynamically
inter-operate with each other has _nothing_ to do with the processor.
The processor can only provide the capability so both can _co-exist_,
but _not_ necessarily so they work with each other. This is a problem
that plagues _all_ programs, libraries and plug-ins on _all_ OSes, when
their memory models differ.

You want to read up on UNIX C libraries (e.g., GLibC and x86-64 as well
as the POSIX/SUSv3 lib64/lib design) as well as Microsoft Windows on
Windows (WoW).

--
Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance
mailto:b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx http://thebs413.blogspot.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign
nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset
because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own



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