Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3337 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] bug fix support by community
  • From: Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:57:16 +0200
  • Message-id: <4447933C.3070704@xxxxxxxxx>
Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:

You are mixing up two different things:
1) using YOU as a channel to provide other updates, not only security or critical ones 2) access to the sources of the packages on SUSE Linux

I'd just like to mention for the 1st item that this totally voids the YOU approach in my opinion, from the perspective of a 3rd party packager. Patch RPMs aside (too complex and time-consuming to maintain), YOU is just a notification mechanism. There is no reason for it to be a separate channel for getting RPMs (well, there is one reason, read at the end ;)).

I think that the concept should be refined here, if we head in the direction of having broader updates on released SUSE versions and real integration of 3rd party packagers, something that has been totally ignored in the past.

Using/accessing additional package repositories has been a feature of YaST for quite some time already -- however, creating those repos was challenging in the past, due to the lack of proper documentation for example. I think we have made significant progress in this area with 10.0

Actually I meant a little bit more than adding other repositories.

Everything, up to 10.0 was only tailored for the way SUSE ships its distribution, and didn't take into account how the actual setup for many (I wouldn't say "most", I don't have numbers) users is, i.e. with additional repositories such as Packman and a few others.

And, precisely, lack of documentation has been a major issue, for example
- how to create a YaST2 repository (which is still a mess, compared to opencarpet or createrepo - I won't mention apt4rpm as I've always found that to be way too complex to set up as well)
- how to create YOU repositories
- easy "upgrade" operation in YaST2

(the "system update" thing in YaST2 always reinstalls the kernel package)

(which introduced support for repomd/yum repos) and especially with 10.1 (which may sound a bit exaggerated, considering the current state of libzypp -- but at the end of the day, it still improves the repo handling a lot ;)).

I hope so ;)

YaST2 should also get a decent way to update existing packages. This is currently (as of 10.0) a real pain to do, there's no obvious option. You have to select "package categories", go to "zzz all", right click on the right pane, "this list..." -> "update if newer version available". It's too complex, there should be a single icon in the YaST2 menu to do that operation in a dedicated way, since it's what almost every SUSE Linux user is doing, every single day for many of them.. well, at least those who use 3rd party repositories like mine, Packman, etc...

Offering an update repository (in repomd style + patch infos) should pretty straightforward on 10.1...

Great! Where can I find the documentation about it ?
- how to generate such repositories, where does the additional data come from ?
- what are the repomd extensions ? schema or DTD ?

Is it backwards compatible with plain repomd ?

And while y2pmsh has a "newer" command to show what updates are available, it doesn't have a "install-newer" (or similar) command, so you have to specify them yourself from the list shown by "newer".

"smart update && smart upgrade" is so much easier, it's what I recommend to everyone.

Exactly -- y2pmsh is basically dead, so pushing people into the smart direction is the right thing(tm) ;)

y2pmsh is still well alive for 10.1 atm, unfortunately, because libzypp & friends are mostly broken in 10.1RC1 :\
(at least that's what most people report on IRC, I for myself currently use y2pmsh for my 10.1RC1 build chroots)

Which makes me think that... err... once y2pmsh will really be dead (i.e. non functional), y2pmbuild must be ported to something else.
To smart ? Or is there some form of CLI driven package installation tool with libzypp ?

Doing that with YaST2 would be a much more tedious operation:
- adding 2 installation sources (the GUI should really accept URLs instead of splitting into "protocol", "server", "directory on server", what a pain)

+1 -- should be fixed for 10.2 ;)

Good :)
I guess it should be entered in bugzilla.

- make sure they're on autorefresh
Which sould actually be the case by default, IIRC.

Yes, but also setting the internet installation source for SUSE Linux (inst-source and inst-source-java) on no-autorefresh.

Now, to come back to YOU... The only real added value of YOU is the following additional information:
- description of the update
- severity (critical, security, minor, ...)

Have you looked at the new update trees for 10.1? They contain repomd

No.

stuff out-of-the-box + the additional information is stored in a repomd-alike way, which could be created by 3rd party packagers as well.

I sure hope so ;)

I think it could even become a feature of the openSUSE build service to create/provide special update trees or add those kind of additional information to repos it creates. (But that's something for... later ;))

Right.

That information is not available in repository metadata formats as of now (neither in YaST2, nor apt-rpm, nor rpm-md and I guess it's not possible in red/open-carpet either).
That's the problem ;)
An update/change description could be pulled out of the RPM %changelog, although I don't know whether that information is stored in current repository metadata formats like rpm-md.
But the severity information isn't available by any means.

See above -- the stuff we did for the update trees is quite an extension
to what repomd offers right now, but it should be relatively easy to add
this to smart and $other_packages_manager(s).

Hm. myeah. Well, if that "repomd-suse" format is backwards compatible with plain repomd, it will work with smart and yum without any need for modifications (I suppose).

If not, then support for another SUSE-specific repomd-variant must be added to smart.

Mauricio ? ;)

cheers
--
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx> <guru@xxxxxxxxxxx>
_\_v FOSDEM 2006 -- 25+26 February 2006 in Brussels

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