Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3337 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] bug fix support by community
  • From: Christoph Thiel <cthiel@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:31:29 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604201255570.16456@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:

> You are mixing up two different things:
> 1) using YOU as a channel to provide other updates, not only security or
> critical ones
> 2) access to the sources of the packages on SUSE Linux
>
> I'd just like to mention for the 1st item that this totally voids the
> YOU approach in my opinion, from the perspective of a 3rd party
> packager. Patch RPMs aside (too complex and time-consuming to maintain),
> YOU is just a notification mechanism. There is no reason for it to be a
> separate channel for getting RPMs (well, there is one reason, read at
> the end ;)).
>
> I think that the concept should be refined here, if we head in the
> direction of having broader updates on released SUSE versions and real
> integration of 3rd party packagers, something that has been totally
> ignored in the past.

Using/accessing additional package repositories has been a feature of YaST
for quite some time already -- however, creating those repos was
challenging in the past, due to the lack of proper documentation for
example. I think we have made significant progress in this area with 10.0
(which introduced support for repomd/yum repos) and especially with 10.1
(which may sound a bit exaggerated, considering the current state of
libzypp -- but at the end of the day, it still improves the repo handling
a lot ;)).


> YaST2 should also get a decent way to update existing packages. This is
> currently (as of 10.0) a real pain to do, there's no obvious option. You
> have to select "package categories", go to "zzz all", right click on the
> right pane, "this list..." -> "update if newer version available". It's
> too complex, there should be a single icon in the YaST2 menu to do that
> operation in a dedicated way, since it's what almost every SUSE Linux
> user is doing, every single day for many of them.. well, at least those
> who use 3rd party repositories like mine, Packman, etc...

Offering an update repository (in repomd style + patch infos) should
pretty straightforward on 10.1...


> And while y2pmsh has a "newer" command to show what updates are
> available, it doesn't have a "install-newer" (or similar) command, so
> you have to specify them yourself from the list shown by "newer".
>
> "smart update && smart upgrade" is so much easier, it's what I recommend
> to everyone.

Exactly -- y2pmsh is basically dead, so pushing people into the smart
direction is the right thing(tm) ;)


> Doing that with YaST2 would be a much more tedious operation:
> - adding 2 installation sources (the GUI should really accept URLs
> instead of splitting into "protocol", "server", "directory on server",
> what a pain)

+1 -- should be fixed for 10.2 ;)


> - make sure they're on autorefresh

Which sould actually be the case by default, IIRC.


> Now, to come back to YOU... The only real added value of YOU is the
> following additional information:
> - description of the update
> - severity (critical, security, minor, ...)

Have you looked at the new update trees for 10.1? They contain repomd
stuff out-of-the-box + the additional information is stored in a
repomd-alike way, which could be created by 3rd party packagers as well.
I think it could even become a feature of the openSUSE build service to
create/provide special update trees or add those kind of additional
information to repos it creates. (But that's something for... later ;))


> That information is not available in repository metadata formats as of
> now (neither in YaST2, nor apt-rpm, nor rpm-md and I guess it's not
> possible in red/open-carpet either).
>
> That's the problem ;)
>
> An update/change description could be pulled out of the RPM %changelog,
> although I don't know whether that information is stored in current
> repository metadata formats like rpm-md.
>
> But the severity information isn't available by any means.

See above -- the stuff we did for the update trees is quite an extension
to what repomd offers right now, but it should be relatively easy to add
this to smart and $other_packages_manager(s).


Regards
Christoph

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