Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3666 mails)

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Re: [SLE] unsubscription
  • From: columbo@xxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:10:06 -0500
  • Message-id: <200503091610.06854.columbo@xxxxxxxxxx>
On Wednesday 09 March 2005 14:01, Brad Bourn wrote:
> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 10:01 am, columbo@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > Brad,
> >
> > The only problem is that the convention on this list is not to top
> > post. It is an implicit (and, yeah, sometimes very explicit)
> > agreement among the list members so that the flow of the
> > conversation moves easily from screen to brain.
>> ::Snip::

> I don't agree (obviously).
> Seems like the only people that comlain are the ones that need
> everyone to conform to them. This doesn't make it an "agreement".

I've been a list member, on and off, long enough to know that the
practice of top-posting is discouraged for the reasons I stated.
Failure to follow the convention does affect the quantity/quality of
any responses you receive. And that is what this list is all about.
Asking a question and, maybe, getting a helpful response. It's mainly
about exchanging information about systems and methods of operation.
It's not a dedicated 'newbie' list and it isn't about advocacy
concerning any subject matter including top posting.

The day to day output of this list makes this kind of topic a
distraction. Especially since it has been dealt with in numerous
postings in the past. Check out the archives (I've determined from
your previous posts that you know how to google through the archives)
to determine how list members responded to top posting in the past and
also note the GENERAL IMPLICIT AGREEMENT of the ACCEPTANCE AND
CONVENTION of bottom posting with trimming. It's an implicit agreement
because that is the way it is done in the vast majority of posts.
Someone really shouldn't join the list and decide that their personal
opinion should override an ESTABLISHED convention.

http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/

> I can find just as many documents written to support both methods.

Ok, I challenge you on this statement. I quickly googled the subject
and found an astonishing imbalance of top to bottom posting support.
You're invited to send me your research results offlist.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=top+posting&btnG=Search

> > For example, if you are attempting to master karate it is a common
> > tradition/convention to remove your shoes prior to entering the
> > dojo.
> > ::snip, snip::

> Depends on the thinking again. If someone believes in themselves
> (The karate instructor), and they see someone not conforming, this
> would mean, *newbie* or *new customer* and I would give them ~extra
> attention.

I disagree totally. But the point is that the 'newbie' must take
responsiblity to learn the basic conventions concerning any endeavor
s/he pursues. That is common sense. Not taking personal
responsibility, according to many Sensei with whom I've dealt, is a
major sign of disrespect.

> If someone is closed minded, and needs everyone to conform to them to
> have them feel better, then I'm sure they would ignore this potential
> great customer to avoid having to be respectful or make any effort
> themselves (elitist?)

There are no customers on this list! Not in the sense that you're
implying. This list consists of a large group of people who are
pooling their knowledge and expertise for the growth and betterment of
the general Linux/Suse community of users. This kind of advocacy
dissuades many from participating because the have neither the time nor
inclination to deal with this kind of BS. I wouldn't be surprised if
you and I and this thread have already been 'PLONKED' and denied in
many readers.

> Like this email, You obviously prefer bottom posting and trimming.
> I'm respecting you with this style of reply. You deserve it because
> your stating your *opinion*.

I post and respond this way because it is painfully obvious to me
(archives) that this is the preferred method within this particular
list. And I am a respecter of people, whether I agree with their
particular position or not.

> Would you be so quick to respond to someone using their style?

I do so daily within my corporate email system. That is the established
mode prevalent within my company. I'm not crazy about it especially
when an email has a long history which mangles the content. But I
comply because that is the mode of operation within that particular
group.

> > On this list you have many Linux and Suse guru's who are intimately
> > familiar with the inner beat of the kernel and this distribution.
> > I would go out on a limb and state that nearly 100% of those
> > experts find top posting annoying.
> > ::Snip::

> where are these conventions setup? I don't see my top-posted simple
> answers being rejected from the list.

The convention is set up in the history of the list (archives) from
which anyone should be able to grasp the general consensus.

> >
> > Hope this helps
>
> how? bottom-posters have valid reasons for their style. top-posters
> can also have reasons. because I have taken the time to listen to
> your reasoning for bottom-posting, are you going to listen to mine?

Listen Brad, just like in real life, you do what you think is best and
you live with the consequences. C'est la vie!

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