Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3637 mails)

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Re: [SLE] Linux Commercial Idea
The difference between the US. and the Eastern Block is one over ridding
fact. In the US the vast majority of people own firearms. If you don't
think that the government takes that into account - Think Again! It's
fundimental to the preamble and constitution. The right to a Free Press and
the right to Bear Arms. In otherwords, the public can "rat" out the
institutions and if neccessary defend (en mass) themselves from unlawful
government activity. It would have to come down to something really bad for
this to come to pass - but the government understands that the "citizens are
armed" (some to the teeth). Your comment about the Stasi, CIA, KGB being the
same is essentially true. But the difference is that In America the people
have vidoe cameras and a press to give them to (can you say Rodney King) and
guns to shoot if needed. the CIA, FBI, and the Press all know this.
Americans don't really trust their government or the corporations and always
keep an eye open (if only half heartedly). Yes, most Americans labor on the
false belief that if it aint American it's inferior - hence the "ugly
American". But the younger generations are becoming more worldly and
tolerant. Oh, and your right about if the Eastern block would have won the
cold war - History and the Press are written to the victors (and often have
very little to do with truth and fact). But, let me ask you this? How many
Americans do you know that are paying their life savings to get themselves
pack at 50 to a 100 people into a shipping container to be loaded on a tanker
to get over to Russia, East Germany, China, and various South American
countries at the risk of dieing during the journey? Not many (if any).

On Sunday 13 May 2001 06:47, Purple Shirt wrote:
> >From: tabanna <tabanna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: tabanna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: suse-linux-e@xxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: [SLE] Linux Commercial Idea
> >Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 04:57:22 +0000
> >
> > > See I grew up in East Germany and back then you could trust people.
> >
> > . . . too young to realize : back_stabbing life , when all's
> >supervised by STASI Secret Police, and Free_Speech a distant dream
> Great, people have been giving me the good ole rant on the Soviet block and
> STASI on this comment. This most likely comes from people who never lived
> in the Eastern block but have gotten their knowledge of the situation from
> the Western press. If there is something to say about history its that you
> shouldn't trust a historian or journalist who doesn't live in the
> environment.
> Besides you left out an important part of my comment. I said we had corrupt
> governments and dictators but you could count on this fact.
> What does this mean? There was no problem. There was free speech you just
> had to know your system on where to use free speech and where not to. It's
> no different today. If you post decss on the net on a website you are not
> allowed free speech but if you keep it in the community environment away
> from the larger attack you can do whatever you feel like. It's the same way
> living in the Eastern block worked. If you went on the street and tried to
> demonstrate for some cause not supported by the government you were bound
> to get problems. If you kept it within your charter of people you were free
> as you wish.
> There is no difference between the CIA and the KGB and the STASI. I always
> chuggle at events like "Berlin Wall shooter receives five years of jail",
> "FBI agent Hansen under arrest for double being double agent".
> It's always funny how the local government and press at the time of the
> event denounces the other government form and ideology. If the US has a
> double agent and they get a trial (of a Russian kind) and then executed its
> an outrage but if a US guy runs over to the Russians and does a bit of an
> information exchange its despicable and they also get an execution but it
> costs a lot more to tax payers because its not done with a rifle but
> "humanely" in a chair. Damn those Russian barbars. The death of the Eastern
> block was the same way. One side won and suddenly we had charges against
> every tiny soldier pop up for treason and humanity. But its normal in the
> unnormal human society.
> Imagine the Eastern block would have won over the Western block. You could
> have seen the same phenomenon in reverse. We would have had trials against
> leaders of the West German government the same way they happened against
> their Eastern comrades.
> And your free speech comment its worthless. Have you looked at the
> situation in the Eastern block over the last ten years??? It's miserable.
> The East Germans 'hate' their West Germans. Their is unrest in their minds
> because they feel cheated by the promises made. Once again it was false
> indications which sickens people's hearts. Hence we got an overwhelming
> Nazi youth fest over there now because its all people can fall back on
> without a job and future. And Russia, this country is worse off than
> anybody. They got nothing and you'd probably get shot for saying something
> as the above. It's like saying "well you got no food but at least you got
> free speech"
> I love free speech but it certainely doesn't receive priority over the
> needs a person has such as food and hope for a better future. despite
> everybody notices how Russia starts to envelop itself back into a more
> government controlled country. Most people fear this and maybe it is to be
> feared but its the only way rampant crime structure can be fought.
> The mistakes done 12 years ago are revisited today with China. The USA has
> no clue about the workings of the Chinese ideology of x(fill in numbers
> here) billion people. You cannot turn a communist country into a Western
> civilization simply because the US wants it to happen. Look at Yugoslavia.
> Ten years of civil war and probably 50 more to come. Imagine China reversed
> on its harsh stand. We would have a third world war. Do you think billions
> of people have all the same mind and ideas? If they get set loose to do
> "free speech" next week we will have war because everybody wants to do
> their own thing and there is no controlling body. The country needs slow
> change instead of rampant turnover. And everybody fears about Taiwan. I do
> too but I don't hear too much moaning from HongKong and how its businesses
> died after the turnover to China a few years back. It seems capitalism
> works under communism so what is the problem? I think mogul Murdoch said
> something like to keep hands of the Chinese political system and simply
> concentrate on trade to help the people. Everything else will just
> interrupt trade and worsen the situation. I believe he is right. China and
> Taiwan relations are so intertwined they risk everything for a little bit
> of political play.
> mk
> _________________________________________________________________
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