Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3104 mails)

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Re: [SLE] Re: An etiquette for this list - a call for discussion
  • From: jbarnett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Jack Barnett)
  • Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:50:43 -0500
  • Message-id: <00c601bf9d74$fc30ffa0$153046c6@xxxxxxx>

----- Original Message -----
From: Rusty <irisinc@xxxxxxx>
To: <jsabatke@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <suse-linux-e@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SLE] Re: An etiquette for this list - a call for discussion

> This discussion leads me to beleive that SOMEONE wants to be put IN
> CHARGE. This is a good list as is; leave it alone!
> Rusty

(IMHO)I don't think anyone here is on a power trip looking to become superme
ruler of the SuSE mailing list, I think that a "common ground" between the
users should be setup so that they list funaction more streamlined and could
possiable prevent users from abusing the list (ie. someone sending porn to
the list)

SuSE was really cool to it users by setting up this list, but SuSE didn't
really inforce any rules apon us. They basically put up the
bandwidth/server/maintaince of the list and left all the "details" of how it
is support to work on a non-techinal level to the users. SuSE has been
really cool about it, it feels like this list in "my" list, as well as
"your" list, and not some cold company mailing list that needlessly enforces
unlogically and unreasonable rules.

I don't think any ONE user could just "make up" and enforce his/hers own
"rules", if the other %99 of the users on the list think these "made up"
rules where not productive to the list in any way, %99 of the other users
won't follow these "fake" rules.

I do think that there should be a common ground on which every one could
agree on, basic rules of communication.

For example, allot of people have trouble reading posts that where posted in
HTML when they use text-based email clients. When someone posts in HTML, it
is difficult for most of the list to read, without being able to easily read
these posts, it is even harder to help the person that is having troubles.
If you can't tell what question is being asked, how are you supose to answer

If you use an HTML client, the HTML post will probably look a little nicer,
but a text only post will still be readable. Most users can "filter out"
the HTML in their head on-the-fly, but this takes allot of effort, that
could be avoided.

Most users on a text-based email client with either delete the HTML post
(without looking or answering the question), reply telling to post in text
(which takes more traffic on the list) or try and answer the question (and
messing up the HTML, making it harder for everyone to read). When someone
posts in HTML, it basically splits the mailing list into two groups, those
who have HTML clients and those who don't. This could be viewed as an
uneeded "fearture" that is degrading the productity of the list.

(IMHO) If someone is running a text based client, they should still get a
fair chance at answering all questions that are posted to the mailing list.

Awhile ago I posted to a thread and used some "in-proper" launage, which
without me realising offended a couple other users. It wasn't mean to be
distrubative but some users had problems with it, and they wrote me via
private email and ask me to stop using it. I understand that "sailor talk"
shouldn't be on a techinal mailing list, and hopefully I won't post that
type of launage again.

I think that is another common ground, it isn't really a rule, they didn't
and couldn't really stop me from using launage, they didn't or couldn't
declare themselves "superme rulers" of the list, but we all here to help
each other in our learning with Linux, specifally SuSE Linux, not insult
each other.

If I am doing something that makes it harder or more difficult for other
users, including yourself on the mailing list to learn linux, I should
atleast make an effort to limit or stop the habit, if it is a reasonable
request. "Please don't swear on the list" is (to me) a reasonable and
do-able request. I find that reasonable, but I can't enforce that rule apon
you or anyone else.

Also, the other requests I seen in posts (not my ideas) where things like
"descriptive subect line", ever get that mail that says "Subject: DOES NOT
WORK!!!!", it is kinda of hard to "sort" though the subject lines for
something you know or are intersted about if all the subject lines where

Also (not my idea) was to stop "jeporary style posts", where someone replies
above the question (I am guilty of this : ) When other users of the mailing
list read these, they get the answer first, then the question. If you watch
allot of jeporary, this can be fun, but if you don't, it can get very
confusing very fast (esspecially in large (threads/converstations).

Consistent quoting policy in followups (not my idea), so every message can
be read the same, and one doesn't have to "rearrange" the message in there
head for it to make sense.

There is books and books on how the TCP/IP should work, how it should have a
"common ground" of communication with other implentations for TCP/IP stacks
on differant OSs. By follow a "standard", you can get TCP/IP, up and
running and commincating with any other implenation in an effective and
streamlined manner. I think there should be a "standard" of how the list is
expected to work. We are all here to learn and explore Linux, we could
probably "streamline" our learning, exploring and interaction with the list
if we could "code" a "standard" communication protocol.

On the other hand, I think the "topic" or "subject" of the post could be
quite liberal. I feel pretty laxed about the the content of the message, as
long as it pretains to Linux or computing in general, it should be cool to

The way I see it, if I have a problem with an Ethernet card not working, I
would rather have some spend 30 seconds of their time helping in getting the
card to work. Prefered to 20 seconds of their time just trying to read my
mangled post and 10 seconds of there time in relaying what the problem might

IMHO it is better to spend less time trying to decypter what the email say,
and more time with the problem solving and debugging. That or we could all

Subject: HELP! IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!!!

>> It doesn't work!!

> Did you try fixing it?

Yes, I tried that and it still doesn't work


: )


> Jim Sabatke wrote:
> >
> > I like discussions of etiquette, IMHO, some rules should be "common
> > knowledge." I disagree with the one that says to always put the quoted
> > text first. I get so many emails that, on some busy days, that I look
> > the response first to see if I'm interested; if not, a quick delete.
> >
> > On Sat, 1 Apr 2000, Philipp Thomas wrote:
> > > Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:22:41 +0200
> > > To: "James (Jim) Hatridge" <hatridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > From: Philipp Thomas <pthomas@xxxxxxx>
> > > Subject: [SLE] Re: An etiquette for this list - a call for discussion
> > >
> > > * James (Jim) Hatridge (hatridge@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) [20000401
> > >
> > > > Personally I see no reason to have rules on this list. We are doing
> > > fine
> > > > without them.
> > >
> > > I tend to disagree, but more on that later on.
> > <snip>
> > --
> > Jim Sabatke
> > SuSE 6.3 Linux
> > Kernel - 2.2.13
> >
> > Never fight with a pig. You both get covered with mud, and the pig likes
> > it.
> >
> >

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