Mailinglist Archive: zypp-devel (51 mails)

[Cristian Morales Vega <cmorve69@xxxxxxxx>]

2009/10/30 Bart Whiteley <bwhiteley@xxxxxxxxxx>:
> On 10/30/2009 12:26 AM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
> > On Friday 30 October 2009 05:34:21 Michael Matz wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Stephan Kulow wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thursday 29 October 2009 18:42:27 Bart Whiteley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just installed 11.2 rc2 from gnome liveCD, then immediately ran
> > > > > 'zypper dup'.  It installed over 1GB of new software, including 184MB
> > > > > worth of OpenOffice.org help files in six languages I don't speak.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why doesn't 'zypper dup' stick to distribution upgrades?  Instead it
> > > > > seems to install the union of the favorite packages of every SUSE
> > > > > developer, or some such.
> > > > Because the livecd distribution is not as complete as it can be.
> > > > OpenOffice package recommends things and zypper upgrades your
> > > > distribution to complete it.
> > > That is something that can and should be mentioned somewhere, release
> > > notes, websites, whatever is "hip" currently.  For some people it might be
> > > good news ("I'll get fantastic new languages I never dreamed of") that
> > > make a difference of choice, for some others it guides the expectations
> > > they have towards first online updates from a CD/liveCD/DVD.
> > >
> > > "Note that due to space limitations we can't put everything onto a
> > > physical medium like a DVD.  We try to strive for a good balance but
> > > sometimes we have to leave out even recommended packages.  So don't be
> > > surprised if the first online update you do tries to install some
> > > additional packages."
> > Actually in older releases I softlocked the packages that would be installed
> > to avoid this suprise. But this information is not displayed anywhere, so 
> > it's
> > pretty complicated to "break". But I will still do that, see e.g. bug#550875 
> > -
> > these "recommendations" just have too many suprises.
>
> Multiple languages of help files is clearly a bug.  Beyond that though,
> I believe this whole way of thinking is flawed.  Back in the day where
> the install was performed mainly by DVD or multiple CDs, and there were
> no online repositories, it made sense to install everything that most
> users might someday need up front.  Otherwise, installing things later
> was painful ("now where did I put that DVD?").  Now, with ubiquitous
> broadband, great online repos, and a great tool (zypper), we don't need
> to do this anymore.  Rather than immediately bring a liveCD install in
> sync with a DVD install, just let the user install things as she
> discovers that they are missing.
>
> I watched 'zypper dup' run for about an hour, and nearly everything it
> pulled down are things I don't want.  I would rather use that disk space
> for something else.  If I am missing something, it is easy to fetch.  In
> fact, I've been running 11.2 since m7, and the first time I ran 'zypper
> dup' was with rc2.  I never noticed anything missing prior to running
> 'zypper dup'.
>
> If some people do want to immediately bring a liveCD install in sync
> with a DVD install, make it a different zypper command.  Don't combine
> it with upgrade.  'zypper dup' should only be concerned with upgrade.
> Make a different command:
> 'zypper install_a_bunch_of_recommended_junk'

We have a problem here. I use KDE, but since I saw this I installed
the x86-64 Gnome liveCD and:
- zypper dup and zypper inr behavior differs. zypper inr tries to
install a lot of -32bit packages. What is worst, the GTK and Qt YaST
software installation modules have the same behavior than zypper inr.
Right now I installed all the packages from "zypper up", since there
were updates related to the software management stack, but the
behavior is the same.
With only repo-oss and repo-update enabled: zypper dup tries to
install 212 new packages (ok), zypper dup --no-recommends says there
is nothing to do (ok), zypper inr tries to install 364 packages, with
a lot of -32bit (WTF!?!). There is a bug in zypper inr...

- As Bart said I get OpenOffice_org-help in french, german and italian
(and others) when my /var/lib/zypp/RequestedLocales file just list
es_ES and en_US (and was the same without es_ES).
In general there isn't an easy way of knowing why a package was
trigerred for installation. Perhaps it "supplements" something, in
this case it can be easy. Buf if another package "recommends" it...
how do you know which package is doing the recommendation?
I needed to install the Qt version (with libqdialogsolver1) to know
which package was doing the recommendation. One of the few cases where
a GUI app has functionality missing in the CLI version...
So, why OpenOffice_org-help-de is triggered for installation?
...because the liveCD installs OpenOffice_org-l10n-de and
OpenOffice_org-help-de supplements it.
I always install from the DVD so I never had this problem. But I
understand that the liveCD only copies an image and so the installed
packages can't be selected. So the question is: it really makes sense
to put french, italian and german translations in the liveCD image???
I'm the Catalan guy... I have two mother tongues and neither of them
is English. But I would have no problem with the liveCD being English
only, with the translations automatically selected for install from
Internet (or the Addon-Lang CD) after installation.
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