On 8 October 2016 at 22:31, L. A. Walsh
The Board's role is to provide guidance and decision making assistance when necessary, not to declare or force contributors to do anything.
--- I never saw discussions about accepting systemd or not on the opensuse or opensuse-factory lists. By the time I saw anything, I was told it was decided.
I remember them They were very long They also included debates at conferences like openSUSE Conference 2010 and 2011
As for patches -- I submitted patches for various products, but in specific, for one good example, with vim/gvim, I submitted a build patch for the rpm to allow the executable(s) to *attempt* to dynamically load the script languages at runtime, and dynamically configure available script options based on what was able to be included (as it does on Windows).
This was after being in repair mode, trying to run vim but being told it wouldn't run because it couldn't find libs for various languages (ruby, python, perl) so it couldn't "edit" any files. ??? I didn't need to run scripts -- I wanted to edit the files -- but the vim builder had hard-linked all the script engines in to require them present at runtime -- in ORDER to edit files. Similarly I tried to submit support for building perl without lots of version requirements so vim could try to load the current perl (if it failed, no perl support) -- as it used to be able to before someone got very nit-picky to not even allow different "patch-level" releases of perl to be loaded or used in place of an early perl of the same major-minor version.
I even provided statements from the perl developers that the patch-level versions were designed to be compatible so people could update a bug in perl without having to recompile®enerate all the modules for a specific major-minor perl. But the suse builder refused, pretty much running around talking about how the the sky would be falling if that was allowed. Pleh!
I'd done it for 4-5 years in suse before that with no problems, now due to version hell, I havn't had many components of yast running since 12.3. yast to run.
None of the above examples were anything to do with the Board All of the above examples sound like you were doing stuff with the primary maintainer wouldn't want to accept for very good reasons. If you disputed those reasons you should have discussed them with the maintainer at length at first, maybe discussed it in a broader context next and then perhaps escalated the topic TO the Board Blaming them for something they had nothing to do with just paints a picture of you as someone who has no idea how the openSUSE Project works despite your 10 years of activity with the project.
The openSUSE Board is strict and strong believers in the principle of "Those Who Do, Decide",
--- And there's the rub -- Who is allowed to "DO".
It's a cute saying, but when who is allowed to "Do" is controlled, the whole thing becomes a different way of controlling what is done and what is decided. In a similar way, one of our worst presidents in history, George Bush II, fired all government employees who couldn't be verified to be loyal Republicans. Such had never been done in recent memory, and threw away scores of decades of experience by firing career employees who had been at their jobs through many presidents. By only allowing Republicans in government offices (including the federal courts), they could ensure only decisions favorable to the party's political views would be made.
Politics have no place here. I consider your analogy as both baseless and offensive, and kindly request to stick to our guiding principles and avoid being so in the future.
I couldn't even get a OBS account to work and was finally told I should create and register a new email to get a new account and try to set it up again, as the old one was broken (and no one knew how to fix it).
The Board also had nothing to do with this Do you have the ticket number for your support call with our infra team (admin@opensuse.org) regarding your account issues?
Therefore, you cannot argue that "The Board" makes those decisions. The openSUSE contributors decide the direction of this project. Full stop.
--- I can argue it, as the board approves who it lets volunteer and do the work. In a similar way Bush-II had control far beyond his direct-influence or power.
Ok, you can argue. You are wrong. The Board does not appoint maintainers. The Board does not approve volunteers. The people doing the work, are the people doing the work, the ones who have stepped up and posted on opensuse-factory and said "I will take the responsibility for $foo" and then poured their efforts behind that commitment The Board has no say in such matters, it's a simple case of "if no one else is taking care of it, thanks, you're it!" and if someone else is taking care of it then the expectation is that the parties involve find a way to work together (and only if they can not, is there the possibility that the Board might end up involved to resolve that conflict between contributors).
If the openSUSE community worked together to support sysvinit as well as systemd, sure, I'd support that.
--- you might, but the board wouldn't.
--- I saw previous, similar decisions with hoping to XFS for all disks, then not supporting it due to a hop to grub which had a bug on XFS (vs. staying with lilo which didn't show the bug). Or not supporting lilo -- even when the version from the developer still worked, or not supporting direct-boot from disk -- which is still working for me even with separate root+usr, which I was told wouldn't work and wouldn't be supported, even though it is recommended in systemd documentation for better performance.
When I asked for reasons why it was required to create unstable forward-symlinks (forward to partitions that hadn't been mounted yet) in /bin to /usr/bin, vs. the *safer* alternative of putting the binaries in /bin and back-links in /usr/bin to it's parent fs where /usr is mounted. I was told it was already decided by the "doers" and couldn't be fixed and wouldn't be done.
Yes, people doing more work for you, who are actively maintaining more parts of the distribution, are going to have more influence on the technical decision of the project..that is the very essence of "Those who do, decide" "I did this one small thing so I get to decide despite the impact that has" is not a valid operational mantra of the openSUSE Project. The lesson I think you need to take away from this thread is that "doing" does not include mailinglist posts. I have long seen you on our lists and I know you have submitted things from time to time, but I have never seen you step up and take responsibility for any part of the openSUSE distribution, to effectively 'own' something as part of our community project, and to do all that such entails, such as taking the initiative, driving the effort, and working with others to make everything work together. sysvinit could have been that thing, it could have been it back in 2010, it could still be it now (admittedly with more work for you). But if you don't do the work, we're just going to be wasting our breaths and electrons on this mailinglist. If you only ever throw stones over the wall, either in the form of drive-by patches or grumpy mailinglist posts, you need to expect those stones to be thrown back. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org