(Resent to fix a rogue typo that made a paragraph illegible)
On 2 October 2016 at 23:02, Larry Stotler
You just made my argument for me. All I did was say "hey I dont care for it, but it is care for by others so just give me a way to not have to use it" and you go and try to tell me what to do. So basically, if I don't agree with you, I shouldn't be here on this list and shouldn't use openSUSE - even tho I have been using it and supporting it for 17 years.
For the last 6 of those 17 years, openSUSE has been talking about using systemd For the last 5 of those 17 years, since 11.4 at the beginning of 2011, openSUSE has been shipping systemd. By the end of that year, in openSUSE 12.1 it was running by default. The best time to discuss or raise actionable objections to systemd in openSUSE were 6 years ago, in 2010, before the openSUSE community made a collective decision to go there. An acceptable time would have been any time during 2011 or even into 2012, there is of course the reality that these things sometimes take some time for peoples opinions to coalesce But in 2016, 5 years after implementation and 4 years after the official support end date of the last non-systemd openSUSE distribution? I'm sorry, that ship has sailed, crossed the ocean, docked, set out again, circumnavigated the globe, and is going around again
I admin Linux systems and I find using systemd more difficult than what I am used to. I don't find it better, so where is the advantage? Further, I see no advantage for using systemd on a server at all. But that's MY experience, which is obviously different from YOURS. However, I'm not telling you to go away just because we disagree.
I am asking you to do take the time to learn about systemd before considering your opinion on it as complete. systemd is downright amazing on servers. Want to make a service that automatically deletes files in a folder every time they appear? That's like 3 lines in a systemd unit file, done using systemd's more dynamic features, like having services start only when required, is a dreamy way of optimising your servers http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/socket-activated-containers.html unlike ancient, old, useless init systems that preceded it, systemd KNOWS the state of the boot and the services it required. Not guessing it and hoping for dozens of well written init scripts to be able to detect and report their status truthfully, but KNOW, to the point where a simple systemctl can show you the status of every single service and it's health. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-1.html systemd uses cgroups by default - Again, this ensures you as an admin CAN know every process a service owns - No more digging around ps and trying to figure out what bloody processes another service started. No more mystery processes that escaped the service by wonderful forking tricks (yes I'm looking at you apache), every service is running in a cgroup, so a simple systemctl status shows the processes in that group. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd-for-admins-2.html Want to limit or prioritise cpu, memory or IO resources to one service over another? Sure! http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/resources.html I could go on.. actually I will Want to figure out EXACTLY which services are taking a long time to boot and the role they play in the critical boot chain? systemd has tools that can answer that.. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/blame-game.html As a sysadmin you want to be in complete control of your system You want to be able to override the settings and scripts that distributions have given you for the services they have packaged Can you do that with sysvinit? not on your life - as soon as you install the upgraded version of the package all those customisations will be thrown away With systemd, you have various ways of selectively, or entirely, replacing distribution systemd configuration with exactly what you need, in a way which does not interfere with distributions doing their responsible role of providing sane defaults for those services http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html Got a service you want to run 10 times with just one parameter different, such as we do with openQA where we're running multiple worker services on the same host - systemd makes it easy - http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/instances.html aaaand now I'm getting tired of signing systemd's praises.. I COULD go on..and frankly the fact that I could after writing all of the above should probably give any systemd-sceptic, especially a sysadmin-systemd-sceptic, pause for thought and start them wondering whether systemd really is the nasty monster the rumours have made it out to be, or whether any sysadmin who isn't getting up to speed on what this can do is going to be left without the skills and expertise to actually manage the linux systems of today, never mind tomorrow. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org