Peter Van Lone wrote:
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Dirk Gently
wrote: Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-06-03 02:03, Dirk Gently wrote:
You accused ME of of Werner's offence.
No. I accuse you of using bad language and having bad manners with people, here.
Only AFTER provocation.
Dirk,
I've gone back over both threads, and it is very clear in this particular dust-up, that yours was the strident accusatory voice: "these germans" being one of the opening volleys.
And I backed my argument with evidence. Do you deny that different cultures develop different methods for problem solving? 1. The Indian way to solve a problem is to throw a street-begger at it to do it by hand. ("The best machine for a task is a human") 2. The Japanese way to solve a problem is to miniaturize all the devices involved. ("Smaller is better") 3. The Russian way to solve a problem is by brute force. ("Bigger is better") 4. The German way to solve a problem is to keep adding more and more parts ("More precision is always better") -- but the downside is that it creates a structure that is incredibly "brittle", because is so complex that changing one little thing for changing conditions breaks the entire thing, or alternatively, that swapping a single part is 3x to 10x more laborious than it should be. [And I have given several examples of the German tendency to over-engineer things, to the point of being detrimental to the German people themselves]. And I never even got into that things like the crazy Dornier Arrow, with a propeller in the nose, and another in the tail, and incredibly long drive-shafts... all for the sake of getting a marginal improvement in performance of the air-frame, at the expense of having to drive two propellers, the weight [and damage risk] of two long drive-shafts (the engine was behind the pilot), and once again, how all of the resources put into that boondoggle would have been better used pursuing something far less radical. 5. The English (and usually American) way to solve a problem is "elegance" ("Simpler is better") Everyone is a product of the culture they grow up in. You can quibble on the accuracy of my characterizations, but one would have to be crazy to argue against the premise that different cultures tend to produce people who look at the same problem from vastly different perspectives, and which are representative of the culture they have grown up in and are immersed in. Each of these cultures and problem-solving strategies has an appropriate time and an appropriate place. The German culture is WELL adapted for producing complex things such as an office suite which is self-contained, and doesn't really have to interact with anything outside of itself. But on the other hand, it is a TERRIBLE cultural base for producing something which should be exceedingly easy to understand in all aspects, so that any person adjusting it can keep a complete model of that mechanism in his mind (such as, an init system). When long-term computing professionals, who have spent decades working on the command line, constantly say that they can't figure out systemd, then there's a SEVERE problem that it has become far too complex. Charges of racism for OBSERVING AND STATING THE OBVIOUS TRUTH are just unnecessarily inflamatory.
I am mostly a listener here ... but after a bit, your anger and foul language
As if there was no provocation... yeah, go on...side with bullies...
and arrogance, become too much. Learn to control your temper,
Ah yes, *I* (and apparently I alone) am supposed to not use insulting language, even though this rule is NEVER enforced for anyone else on this list. You're such a hypocrite.
and to modulate your voice. Yours is never the only valid position.
I never said it was.
Ever.
And yet we are talking about the software written by a man who says that systemd is the ONLY valid solution possible. Not that it's the only valid solution being developed -- he says that there is no other way possible to do system initialization.
If you would keep that in mind as you post, your contributions would be easier to appreciate.
If people don't like me returning insults on this list, then maybe they had best start complaining when someone insults me. Complaining that the attacked party is defending himself is the epitome of barbarity and savagery.
I ask that you cease and desist. If you will not, then I would ask the list maintainer to censor you.
How about you start complaining when someone insults me, rather than complaining only when I return fire. Until then, you're just a hypocrite and a savage who doesn't understand the basic rules of civilized behavior.
Peter
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