Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1702 mails)

[Jim Henderson <hendersj@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:21:51 -0500, Peter Van Lone wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Jim
> Henderson<hendersj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > I think perhaps this is part of the issue - it was easier in KDE3 than
> > it is this way, which is more complicated (ie, takes more steps).  From
> > a feedback standpoint, that seems a reasonable issue to raise to me.
>
> I think that is reasonable -- but users should also be prepared to say
> "I will live with an extra step or two on some things, to make room for
> new features EVEN IF they are features I myself do not personally value"

I would agree with this as well - even if it's just "for the time 
being".  I think as a society, we're getting a little too used to the 
idea of instant gratification.  Of course if there are ways to remove 
those extra steps, those should be looked at, but it also should be 
brought into the discussion when enhancements are being looked at to make 
things better.

Of course with development, not everyone is going to get all their wishes 
implemented all the time.  It's easy as a user to lose sight of that, and 
to become discouraged when bugs one has filed never seem to get 
addressed.  Limited development resources and all that mean that 
someone's got to decide which bugs get looked at first.  But this 
particular discussion has been had on this list a few times already, so I 
won't rehash it again. :-)

> > I've heard similar feedback about Novell's iManager management tool -
> > the old way was faster than the new way, so people kept using the old
> > tool and not getting the benefits (like being supported) of using the
> > new tool because the new tool was more complex than was necessary.
>
> iManager both sucks and rocks -- it is more difficult to do a host of
> things than it was in ConsoleOne -- but then it is much more easily
> extensible and portable, and therefore much better than ConsoleOne in
> some regards. Trade-Offs.

Yeah, there are things that are better in iManager, no question.  One 
specific example is the difference between DNS/DHCP management in 
iManager vs. the old DNSDHCP Management Tool (wasn't even ConsoleOne).  I 
have a friend who counted the number of mouse clicks to complete basic 
tasks, and iManager was much less efficient.

> I do not think that the people who designed iManager were necessarily
> wrong to adopt the trade-offs that they did. I do suspect that Novell
> folk have a history of working a bit in a vaccuum -- of having really
> cool technology but not really listening to a wide range of customer
> feedback. They historically have listened primarily to their own tech
> leadership and to feedback from the very largest (and therefore heavily
> favored) customers without putting it all into a broader perspective.  I
> do think they are improving in that respect (though still too slowly).

Agreed.  I've been a customer and an employee (currently an employee) and 
have observed this from both the outside and the inside.  And it does 
seem to be getting better, though there are some areas we could listen to 
much better (particularly the education and small business markets).  If 
only I were king.... ;-)

> > Not a direct analogue to this situation, but it seems that if this
> > feedback were taken back to development as something to look at (ie,
> > "how can we make it easier to do this task"), it seems like that might
> > meet Bob's expectations.
>
> and it would be good for the customer to hear "they get that it is less
> efficient. They will look into it to see whether they can address it in
> future releases, but for now at least I can do the thing I wanted to be
> able to do"

Yes, one of the big things I've learned in dealing with customer 
satisfaction issues is that the customers who are often the most upset 
just want to be heard.  I've made it my goal professionally to listen to 
those customers and do what I can (within reason) to handle their 
situation.  As a result of those customers being made happier, my entire 
team (at the time that I started this; I've moved teams a couple times 
since then, but I still get a fair number of the complaint calls for my 
department) sends the upset customers my way now.

> The whining bitchy carpy tone here, where folks yell at each other and
> call names -- is really really exhausting and ... well just leave it at
> exhausting. Nobody involved with SUSE/Novell is either totally evil or
> totally good -- and no single feature or lack thereof is total proof of
> total failure/success. Gees ...

Yes, agreed, and well said.

Jim
-- 
 Jim Henderson
 Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits

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