Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1695 mails)
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Re: [opensuse] Re: Beagle frontend
- From: Dan Goodman <dan.goodman@xxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:38:44 -0400
- Message-id: <4A5F3B74.7050906@xxxxxxxx>
JB2 wrote:
Servers (SLES) 8,9 and 10, as well as "the other guy" (RH), as well as
some "unbreakable" Linux, and find SLES to be far and away the best
option in large-scale environments.
And while there is SLED (Desktop), it requires $, so you lose one of the
major distinctions from Windows if you recommend that route.
Further, there needs to be a core group of individuals who are a bit
ahead of the curve (openSuSE community), who can and do serve as a point
of trust and reference for would-be new adopters...so if their
experience declines, the front-end that leads to wider adoption becomes
weakened, leading to a weakening of the entire effort.
OPTIONAL EXAMPLE:
You can skip this if you don't want to read more. But it gives what I
think is a good example from PC history about how this has bitten other
vendors.
My example is Gateway, but there could be others easily. My first GW was
in about 1990. Many people who adopted PC's over the next several years
came to me for recommendations, and switched to purchasing GW after
hearing my experiences and recommendations.
Then, after I had archived a lot of material on a nice Colorado tape
drive I had bought with my first system, I tried to buy a replacement
with the same drive. Gateway's response: we found out that only a few
people used tapedrives, so we have dropped it as even an option you can
purchase.
End results: I purchased a different machine. I never did get a
satisfactory solution to my tape issues. And I stopped recommending
Gateway, because of their unwillingness to take care of the needs of
their technically oriented customers, as well as because of other
attitude changes leading to a general decline in technical
differentiation from their competition.
And a few years later, they were in deep trouble, primarily because
former repeat customers became non-customers, and led others away with
them. Not just because of my experience, but because they began to get a
reputation as just another vendor, and one who didn't get it, at that.
I don't want to see that happen to this distro. But it must take care of
its users such as yourself, David Rankin, Peter Nikolic, jdd, etc.
(apologies if you are someone else who belongs in this category but who
I may have omitted.) If the power-users become disgruntled, then the
vast majority of new users begin to drift away from, instead of towards,
this distro.
And to whoever it was that suggested if I didn't like the install and
upgrade experience in SuSE, I should switch to Gentoo and have some
"real fun" -- at least with Gentoo I would have a community that was
focused on trying to attract and retain users, and was willing to listen
to their user base. Or so I have heard... and if not Gentoo, there are
other communities that don't say "like it or leave it" -- "my way or the
highway" whenever someone questions their decisions or their designs.
OpenSuSE seems to be somewhere in the middle. But that is a step back
from where it was, and the slope gets slippier as you get further down
it. If the distro creates a few mistakes that are prominent, on the tail
of some that have occurred, the slope will get quite slippy very quickly.
Dan
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On 15 July 09, Dan Goodman wrote:As an afterthought, I work professionally with SuSE Linux Enterprise
...
I am still using this distro, but I have become increasingly reluctant
to recommend it to potential new Linux users, at least until a few of
these quality of experience issues get resolved.
Is having a few more testers for a package worth alienating potential
and current users?
I think not....
Quality NOW should always be the first point of reference for anything
done with, for and by this distro...without it, all else is meaningless
and self-defeating, as you will end up with only a small core of
dedicated users, with others, current and future users, going RH or Ubuntu?
A year ago I would have told my technically proficient friends who were
considering Linux to go with Suse. Now I waffle -- tell them what I am
using and why, but feel that I have to point out that certain decisions
and knowledge need to be present up front, in order for the distro to
work well for the average new user.
Just because openSuSE usually doesn't come in a box, doesn't mean that
the "out of box experience" is irrelevant. Instead, it is almost
everything -- first impressions are hard to overcome.
You cannot sacrifice quality now in order to obtain better quality in
the future. If you do, you are risking the future, rather than building
towards it.
Well said, Dan. I too find myself not really pushing SuSE like I once used
to. Two years ago, it's all I talked about when anything 'computers' came up
in conversation. Now....I say if they want to use Linux, they should try to
find an older (10.3 or older) version of SuSE (openSUSE for you anal types
out there) or I send them to distrowatch.com and tell them to look for
something that looks like it might suit them, then explain the same points
you and Pete and quite a few others have brung up in this thread.
Servers (SLES) 8,9 and 10, as well as "the other guy" (RH), as well as
some "unbreakable" Linux, and find SLES to be far and away the best
option in large-scale environments.
And while there is SLED (Desktop), it requires $, so you lose one of the
major distinctions from Windows if you recommend that route.
Further, there needs to be a core group of individuals who are a bit
ahead of the curve (openSuSE community), who can and do serve as a point
of trust and reference for would-be new adopters...so if their
experience declines, the front-end that leads to wider adoption becomes
weakened, leading to a weakening of the entire effort.
OPTIONAL EXAMPLE:
You can skip this if you don't want to read more. But it gives what I
think is a good example from PC history about how this has bitten other
vendors.
My example is Gateway, but there could be others easily. My first GW was
in about 1990. Many people who adopted PC's over the next several years
came to me for recommendations, and switched to purchasing GW after
hearing my experiences and recommendations.
Then, after I had archived a lot of material on a nice Colorado tape
drive I had bought with my first system, I tried to buy a replacement
with the same drive. Gateway's response: we found out that only a few
people used tapedrives, so we have dropped it as even an option you can
purchase.
End results: I purchased a different machine. I never did get a
satisfactory solution to my tape issues. And I stopped recommending
Gateway, because of their unwillingness to take care of the needs of
their technically oriented customers, as well as because of other
attitude changes leading to a general decline in technical
differentiation from their competition.
And a few years later, they were in deep trouble, primarily because
former repeat customers became non-customers, and led others away with
them. Not just because of my experience, but because they began to get a
reputation as just another vendor, and one who didn't get it, at that.
I don't want to see that happen to this distro. But it must take care of
its users such as yourself, David Rankin, Peter Nikolic, jdd, etc.
(apologies if you are someone else who belongs in this category but who
I may have omitted.) If the power-users become disgruntled, then the
vast majority of new users begin to drift away from, instead of towards,
this distro.
And to whoever it was that suggested if I didn't like the install and
upgrade experience in SuSE, I should switch to Gentoo and have some
"real fun" -- at least with Gentoo I would have a community that was
focused on trying to attract and retain users, and was willing to listen
to their user base. Or so I have heard... and if not Gentoo, there are
other communities that don't say "like it or leave it" -- "my way or the
highway" whenever someone questions their decisions or their designs.
OpenSuSE seems to be somewhere in the middle. But that is a step back
from where it was, and the slope gets slippier as you get further down
it. If the distro creates a few mistakes that are prominent, on the tail
of some that have occurred, the slope will get quite slippy very quickly.
Dan
Notice: This communication, including attachments, may contain confidential or
proprietary information to be conveyed solely for the intended recipient(s). If
you are not the intended recipient, or if you otherwise received this message
in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly
delete this e-mail, including attachments, without reading or saving them in
any manner. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction
of this e-mail, including attachments, is strictly prohibited and may be
unlawful.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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