Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1695 mails)

[Larry Stotler <larrystotler@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Adam Tauno
WIlliams<awilliam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Not enabling new features results in a horrible user experience;  note
> that neither Apple or Microsoft adopt this approach.    New features
> should absolutely be enabled - otherwise the interloper thinks your
> product is backward crap, it is completely unreasonable to make users
> run around turning things on.

Yep.  That's the same philosophy they have on the Windows side.  Let's
make sure our program is the MOST important program the user rarely
uses, have it load at startup, run in the task bar, and never get
used.  After turning off about 10-20 of those programs at startup,
Windows is actually usable.  So, you think Linux and openSUSE should
emulate that?  If so, why are you using Linux?

> And Beagle, at least, is hardly a "breakthrough" feature as it has been
> around for something like five years and many releases.

And it was still broken less than 2 years ago when 10.3 was released.
Back in the day, S.u.S.E. included a lot of new technologies, but they
made sure that they worked.  Now, it's stuffed in and fixed with an
update(like the infamous 10.1's broken package system in the released
version.  Cram a new package system into Beta3, have 6 MORE betas and
3 RC's and still released a broken system).

> Ditto.  I'm an advocate of the rule "older than 5 years = onus on you".

So, how old's your car?  How about your appliances?  I'm glad you can
afford to upgrade all the time.  Some of us don't have the extra $$ or
we just find our systems are still usable even at 8-10 years old.

Linux has always been lauded as the system for older machines.  Now we
are moving away from that?  If so, why not start removing support for
legacy hardware from the kernel?  Or, remove support for the Palm
Pilot?  It's OLD.  etc., etc?

> Most users don't use machines that way;  they use what is presented and
> readily available.  Use this approach and they will promptly install a
> distro that turns all the stuff on.   Making life difficult for the
> normal user (hardware < 5 years old) for the sake of the guy with
> dual-720k-floppy drives makes no sense.

When someone buys a new windows machine, they have all kinds of crap
loaded they never use nor want.  That's a great way to get people to
use features.   No one expects to run a modern distro on a 486 or
Pentium with all the features.  But a P3/500 with 512MB RAM is a
useful desktop.  A PowerMac G4/400 is fast as well for internet and
writing a document.  It's not for gaming or encoding tho.

> I believe in either 10.3 or 11.0 (at least) it was mentioned right in
> the installer release notes how to disable it.  They pop-up in your face
> when installing.

http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html
http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/11.0/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html
http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/11.1/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html

No mention of Beagle anywhere I could see.

> There are some frustrated users, I've seen no evidence there are legions
> of them.   I'm no frustrated and clearly other people who have replied
> to this thread are not frustrated either.  I do not believe the majority
> of openSUSE users are frustrated.

How many users of openSUSE actually use these mailing lists?  5%?
10%?  That's a statistically small sample to work with.  Most of use
are more computer savy and have used Linux for years.

> X is a solution to a problem for some, not all.  Thus it should not be
> enabled by default.  Same with Avahi, Hot Plug, ACPI/APM, the
> screensaver, and DHCP.  Why should I have to be bothered to disable the
> screensaver?

Avahi is crap.  Never used Bluetooth, Firewire, Palm Pilot, Irda, etc,
but I am always required to install support for them.

Part of being a "community" is that everyone is "supposed" to have a
voice.  However, you and others like you, seem to think that since you
shout louder, that our opinions aren't relavent.  Too many times nice,
easy going debates on these lists degenerate and nothing is
accomplished.  I don't have any idea how to fix that problem, but I
wish there was an answer other than get used to it or upgrade my
hardware.(I'm not targeting you directly, but that seems to crop up a
lot).

> Nope, "Sustainable progress" is created by offer a fantastic
> state-of-the-art feature-on-par-with-OS/X-and-Vista desktop.  Which
> thankfully openSUSE does RIGHT NOW!   It is an awesome distro.

Why should we emulate them?  I thought we had a better way.  I don't
need my desktop to wobble, rotate, bounce, or anything else to be
productive.  You'd be amazed at how well older hardware works once you
turn a lot of that crap off.  Sure, some people want that, but by no
means does everyone want it.  I could care less how much 3d
performance my video card has.  I run a 2D desktop.  That's what's
important to me.

Please, always remember that the preceding is MY opinion, which may or
may not be same as the person reading this.
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