On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Adam Tauno WIlliams<awilliam@whitemice.org> wrote:
Not enabling new features results in a horrible user experience; note that neither Apple or Microsoft adopt this approach. New features should absolutely be enabled - otherwise the interloper thinks your product is backward crap, it is completely unreasonable to make users run around turning things on.
Yep. That's the same philosophy they have on the Windows side. Let's make sure our program is the MOST important program the user rarely uses, have it load at startup, run in the task bar, and never get used. After turning off about 10-20 of those programs at startup, Windows is actually usable. So, you think Linux and openSUSE should emulate that? If so, why are you using Linux?
And Beagle, at least, is hardly a "breakthrough" feature as it has been around for something like five years and many releases.
And it was still broken less than 2 years ago when 10.3 was released. Back in the day, S.u.S.E. included a lot of new technologies, but they made sure that they worked. Now, it's stuffed in and fixed with an update(like the infamous 10.1's broken package system in the released version. Cram a new package system into Beta3, have 6 MORE betas and 3 RC's and still released a broken system).
Ditto. I'm an advocate of the rule "older than 5 years = onus on you".
So, how old's your car? How about your appliances? I'm glad you can afford to upgrade all the time. Some of us don't have the extra $$ or we just find our systems are still usable even at 8-10 years old. Linux has always been lauded as the system for older machines. Now we are moving away from that? If so, why not start removing support for legacy hardware from the kernel? Or, remove support for the Palm Pilot? It's OLD. etc., etc?
Most users don't use machines that way; they use what is presented and readily available. Use this approach and they will promptly install a distro that turns all the stuff on. Making life difficult for the normal user (hardware < 5 years old) for the sake of the guy with dual-720k-floppy drives makes no sense.
When someone buys a new windows machine, they have all kinds of crap loaded they never use nor want. That's a great way to get people to use features. No one expects to run a modern distro on a 486 or Pentium with all the features. But a P3/500 with 512MB RAM is a useful desktop. A PowerMac G4/400 is fast as well for internet and writing a document. It's not for gaming or encoding tho.
I believe in either 10.3 or 11.0 (at least) it was mentioned right in the installer release notes how to disable it. They pop-up in your face when installing.
http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/11.0/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/11.1/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html No mention of Beagle anywhere I could see.
There are some frustrated users, I've seen no evidence there are legions of them. I'm no frustrated and clearly other people who have replied to this thread are not frustrated either. I do not believe the majority of openSUSE users are frustrated.
How many users of openSUSE actually use these mailing lists? 5%? 10%? That's a statistically small sample to work with. Most of use are more computer savy and have used Linux for years.
X is a solution to a problem for some, not all. Thus it should not be enabled by default. Same with Avahi, Hot Plug, ACPI/APM, the screensaver, and DHCP. Why should I have to be bothered to disable the screensaver?
Avahi is crap. Never used Bluetooth, Firewire, Palm Pilot, Irda, etc, but I am always required to install support for them. Part of being a "community" is that everyone is "supposed" to have a voice. However, you and others like you, seem to think that since you shout louder, that our opinions aren't relavent. Too many times nice, easy going debates on these lists degenerate and nothing is accomplished. I don't have any idea how to fix that problem, but I wish there was an answer other than get used to it or upgrade my hardware.(I'm not targeting you directly, but that seems to crop up a lot).
Nope, "Sustainable progress" is created by offer a fantastic state-of-the-art feature-on-par-with-OS/X-and-Vista desktop. Which thankfully openSUSE does RIGHT NOW! It is an awesome distro.
Why should we emulate them? I thought we had a better way. I don't need my desktop to wobble, rotate, bounce, or anything else to be productive. You'd be amazed at how well older hardware works once you turn a lot of that crap off. Sure, some people want that, but by no means does everyone want it. I could care less how much 3d performance my video card has. I run a 2D desktop. That's what's important to me. Please, always remember that the preceding is MY opinion, which may or may not be same as the person reading this. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org