On Sun April 12 2009 2:20:00 pm Larry Stotler wrote:
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 1:49 PM, jdd
wrote:
<snip>
what do you think? be constructive :-)
Unfortunately, this has been tried before, and the KDE3 users were basically harrassed and ignored and told to just suck it up and deal with a basically broken KDE4 because it is the wave of the future(which is basically what M$ is doing with Vista). I had previously exposed many fallacies with KDE4 in regards to faster and leaner, but was ignored, or told to waste money on nerwer hardware.
That is their favorite tactic, not addressing the underlying issues.
The only reason I even chimed in recently was because I had an issue with NetworkManager which was caused by an issue with the Buildservice, which should not have happened in a SuSE distro. SuSE's quality has dropped with the empasis on glitz, so I've basically moved on to testing out other Distros. I will be installing PCLinuxOS 2009 which is KDE3 based this week since I now have a lot of time because I was laid off.
Sorry the previous administration and govermental mismanagemt at all levels has invaded your life. I don't care what country you're in, that is another and very real problem/issue and one that needs fixing in the worst way, however, don't run from openSuSE, it is still worth saving, instead, change the audience you write to be more effective. What you say is basically right, the audience is wrong. Management needs to be 'educated' about how their profits can and will suffer if they continue to make poor decisions at the highest levels.
KDE4 wasn't ready for prime time, and the major and vocal supporters are the ones who are keeping their system fully updated with the build service. They have forgotten that the majority of users don't use these mailing lists and don't keep their systems up to date with the current KDE4.2.x versions, but that these same users have to deal with only whatever updates that are released for them via the update service.
And for many, it still isn't ready and at the moment, a developer group has defacto control of an entire distribution by the way they are doing 'business'. Novell needs to regain control.
As someone who had supported SuSE since 1999, I'm very disappointed with the current 11.1, and still use 11.0 on most of my stuff while I
That is a valid reason to not upgrade, but for those that MUST upgrade to address some of the very issues you mentioned previously but will lose the current, functional version of their desktop environment. KDE3 is an essential part of the functionality of openSuSE for many reasons and whether or not you find KDE4 an acceptable replacement, the fact remains that for some, they are being forced to live with existing bugs in KDE or other packages in the openSuSE distro, OR to give up their current environment in order to address other issues such as drivers, kernel, etc. which are fixed in later distro releases. It is simply pre-mature to elimiate a functional option in deference to something that is not yet ready for prime time for many people.
evaluate where I will go from here. I paid for about a dozen versions over those years, and would gladly continue doing so if the quality was what I had come to expect. I do believe that the community idea is a good one, but since the community seems to be ignoring some people by saying won't fix or just upgrade, IMO, it's got a long way to go. Maybe in a couple of releases I will see what I have come to expect from SuSE, but I don't see it now, and the lack of support for current versions(isn't 10.3 still supported as well?) and the push to only include the next big thing is counter to what I had come to expect. SuSE always pushed boundaries, but it also made sure stuff was stable. The 10.1 fiasco with the broken package system that was shoved in during the 3rd Beta and then a release with a broken package system was bad enough. 11.1's broken KDE3 install IF you change ANYTHING is as bad if not worse.
I don't fault KDE devs for wanting to develop a replacement for KDE3, but I do fault openSuSE management for their head-long rush to the same cliff the rest of the lemmings are jumping off of.
The Freedom we have with Linux and FOSS is what allows us to use a specific version, but it also allows us to move on when what we want/need is no longer the same as where the current version is going.
As the motto says: Have a lot of fun!
Another 'white hat' being edged out. Shame IMO. Now that you have joined the ranks of mismanagement at the federal level government, at least you have enough time to help muster support and policy changes in an otherwise and historically superior distro that is being destroyed. The place to do this is by writing to the head-shed at Novell who owns the product. Show how it affects their profit/bottom-line figures by continuing to allow things to progress the way they are. Novell has the power to guide the path openSuSE takes, it just needs to exercise that power. Remembering that openSuSE is a development tool for their SLE* product line, and bugs and bad decisions made there will increase their costs in the end product that they sell because it will require more time and money to fix the bugs that openSuSE 'WONTFIX' and will cost money by having to provide support to their paying customers fixing bugs that could/should have been fixed. SLE* lags openSuSE by one or several openSuSE releases, which if those base distros contain 'WONTFIX' bugs will remain to cost them in debugging and support issues later. So, while looking for that new job, write a few to various 'chiefs' in or at Novell. Talk in terms of profit. Open source software isn't the problem, mismanagement of how to effectively use it is. -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org