Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3232 mails)
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Re: [SLE] eric raymond, and binary drivers
- From: suse@xxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:59:22 +0000 (UTC)
- Message-id: <44E8BF16.1070902@xxxxxx>
M. Fioretti wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2006 11:12:11 AM -0400, suse@xxxxxx (suse@xxxxxx)
> wrote:
>
>> I will be straightforward and say that multimedia support from Linux
>> distros has been abominable. So many of them won't even play mp3s
>> out of the box, nevermind video codecs like xvid.
>
> It's passed some time since when I last looked in detail into this,
> but IIRC, at least for _some_ distributions, they "won't even play XYZ
> out of the box" because they legally CANNOT integrate/redistribute the
> necessary sw, isn't it?
I've heard that, and I have no idea if it's true. That said, I rarely
see xvid installed by default, for instance (which is GPL'd, and can
decode DivX). The main distro's seem to consider media playback beneath
them.
>> So I make this humble proposal: Make a nice big easy package that
>> will install all the multimedia goodness, just don't include it on
>> the CD. Instead, have it downloaded.
>
> And how would this be legally/ethically *different* from including it
> in the CDs? If you can't one way (see above) you can't the other, the
> media doesn't make difference.
Well, it seems to satisfy the GNU devotees. They can run their systems
pure without the taint of tainted software tainting their machines.
> Unless you meant that a THIRD, independent party should do it, but
> that's not what it looks like from what you write. So, to who are you
> proposing to host that "big easy package"?
That's actually what seems to be happening now. I use packman for SuSE,
but I stumbled upon it after much searching about long ago. Ubuntu has
its "Easybuntu" to get those codecs. The methods are all there, the
problem is that they're fragmented and a new user has no idea they exist
or how to get at them.
In the end, I believe it boils down to a simple question: Do you want
your system to work, or do you want it to be free? It's an awful
question, and we all want both, but for certain things, it's currently
not possible, which brings us back to the initial question.
The GNU devotees will tell you, with religious conviction, that only by
denying yourself a working system can you convince the hardware makers
to make free drivers, as if it were some kind of electronic hunger
protest. I don't find this argument terribly convincing.
I don't have too much of a problem with Nvidia having a closed source
driver, for instance. The driver is good, and it is solely of use to
their hardware, so I really don't see the harm.
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2006 11:12:11 AM -0400, suse@xxxxxx (suse@xxxxxx)
> wrote:
>
>> I will be straightforward and say that multimedia support from Linux
>> distros has been abominable. So many of them won't even play mp3s
>> out of the box, nevermind video codecs like xvid.
>
> It's passed some time since when I last looked in detail into this,
> but IIRC, at least for _some_ distributions, they "won't even play XYZ
> out of the box" because they legally CANNOT integrate/redistribute the
> necessary sw, isn't it?
I've heard that, and I have no idea if it's true. That said, I rarely
see xvid installed by default, for instance (which is GPL'd, and can
decode DivX). The main distro's seem to consider media playback beneath
them.
>> So I make this humble proposal: Make a nice big easy package that
>> will install all the multimedia goodness, just don't include it on
>> the CD. Instead, have it downloaded.
>
> And how would this be legally/ethically *different* from including it
> in the CDs? If you can't one way (see above) you can't the other, the
> media doesn't make difference.
Well, it seems to satisfy the GNU devotees. They can run their systems
pure without the taint of tainted software tainting their machines.
> Unless you meant that a THIRD, independent party should do it, but
> that's not what it looks like from what you write. So, to who are you
> proposing to host that "big easy package"?
That's actually what seems to be happening now. I use packman for SuSE,
but I stumbled upon it after much searching about long ago. Ubuntu has
its "Easybuntu" to get those codecs. The methods are all there, the
problem is that they're fragmented and a new user has no idea they exist
or how to get at them.
In the end, I believe it boils down to a simple question: Do you want
your system to work, or do you want it to be free? It's an awful
question, and we all want both, but for certain things, it's currently
not possible, which brings us back to the initial question.
The GNU devotees will tell you, with religious conviction, that only by
denying yourself a working system can you convince the hardware makers
to make free drivers, as if it were some kind of electronic hunger
protest. I don't find this argument terribly convincing.
I don't have too much of a problem with Nvidia having a closed source
driver, for instance. The driver is good, and it is solely of use to
their hardware, so I really don't see the harm.
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