Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3605 mails)
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Re: [SLE] Re: And another 10.1 showstopper
- From: Darryl Gregorash <raven@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 02:21:15 -0600
- Message-id: <447EA37B.8020806@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On 01/06/06 00:38, Rajko M wrote:
> Darryl Gregorash wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> What's next on the chopping list of proprietary modules? ATI and nVidia?
>> Bye-bye ndiswrapper, perhaps? I know I won't be holding my breath
>> waiting for BluRay support to show up in the Linux kernel. If we are
>> going to be forced to use only hardware that is on some Linus-approved
>> list, I do hope that Linus will spend a reasonable amount of time to
>> make sure the list is a) kept current, and b) made widely available.
>> Otherwise, we might as well pack it in, and run out to buy XP.
>>
>
> Darryl,
>
> why in the world one would like to put in the kernel foreign code.
Because that is where device drivers belong? Otherwise, I would like you
to tell me just what user space I should use to load the driver for this
nice shiny new WiFi card that comes only with a proprietary device
driver. Will every user that logs in need to load his own driver to use
the card (I'd love to see how that would work), or will just one suffice?
>
> That is how any modern OS deals with device drivers (including XP).
The only reason XP does it is because that is the way DOS did it. Oh,
yes, I am old enough to remember the BSOD -- I am old enough to remember
when the IBM 360 was shiny and new.
> The only thing that happens by trowing binary drivers out of kernel is
> that responsibility for writing and debugging drivers is back to
> vendors. Scream that they have no resources for that might be real,
> but than it is up to them to open the code or technical data and let
> people help them.
It has always been the responsibility of the vendor to develop and debug
his device drivers, if they are going to be distributed as proprietary
binaries. Do you seriously expect me to believe that vendors routinely
turn all their code and technical specs over to Microsoft, to let them
do what they will? Yeah, right. I believe in the easter bunny, too. The
most they will ever turn over is the device i/o map, to permit MS to
write its own driver.
Any vendor serious about supporting Linux will likewise make sure his
distributed device drivers are properly debugged. But if no one can use
his drivers anyway, then any vendor is just going to walk away from
Linux support, if his only option is to make all his intellectual
property rights meaningless.
No, this is not a technical issue, it is a childish mind-game that can
only result in Linux users have less choice, not more.
--
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> Darryl Gregorash wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> What's next on the chopping list of proprietary modules? ATI and nVidia?
>> Bye-bye ndiswrapper, perhaps? I know I won't be holding my breath
>> waiting for BluRay support to show up in the Linux kernel. If we are
>> going to be forced to use only hardware that is on some Linus-approved
>> list, I do hope that Linus will spend a reasonable amount of time to
>> make sure the list is a) kept current, and b) made widely available.
>> Otherwise, we might as well pack it in, and run out to buy XP.
>>
>
> Darryl,
>
> why in the world one would like to put in the kernel foreign code.
Because that is where device drivers belong? Otherwise, I would like you
to tell me just what user space I should use to load the driver for this
nice shiny new WiFi card that comes only with a proprietary device
driver. Will every user that logs in need to load his own driver to use
the card (I'd love to see how that would work), or will just one suffice?
>
> That is how any modern OS deals with device drivers (including XP).
The only reason XP does it is because that is the way DOS did it. Oh,
yes, I am old enough to remember the BSOD -- I am old enough to remember
when the IBM 360 was shiny and new.
> The only thing that happens by trowing binary drivers out of kernel is
> that responsibility for writing and debugging drivers is back to
> vendors. Scream that they have no resources for that might be real,
> but than it is up to them to open the code or technical data and let
> people help them.
It has always been the responsibility of the vendor to develop and debug
his device drivers, if they are going to be distributed as proprietary
binaries. Do you seriously expect me to believe that vendors routinely
turn all their code and technical specs over to Microsoft, to let them
do what they will? Yeah, right. I believe in the easter bunny, too. The
most they will ever turn over is the device i/o map, to permit MS to
write its own driver.
Any vendor serious about supporting Linux will likewise make sure his
distributed device drivers are properly debugged. But if no one can use
his drivers anyway, then any vendor is just going to walk away from
Linux support, if his only option is to make all his intellectual
property rights meaningless.
No, this is not a technical issue, it is a childish mind-game that can
only result in Linux users have less choice, not more.
--
Check the headers for your unsubscription address
For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@xxxxxxxx
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@xxxxxxxx
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