Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3605 mails)
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Re: [SLE] Re: And another 10.1 showstopper
- From: Rajko M <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 23:21:05 -0500
- Message-id: <447FBCB1.6020902@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Darryl Gregorash wrote:
Are you serious?
By definition operating system structure is divided in few subsystems. Kernel and user space is used to describe division in functions for 2 of those subsystems, not who and when is starting program. BTW, all startup scripts and programs including init, that are running for all users, are in user space.
Details:
http://plg.uwaterloo.ca/~itbowman/CS746G/a1/
http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/cs427/Architecture+of+Linux
If kernel provide would raw interface for your (any) WiFi card than user space program can be used to control the card. Graphic subsystem, X server, is most prominent user space driver. USB subsystem is another.
Popular myth: "They didn't develop anything after DOS"
Well, they did.
Good morning.
Do you think that MS certifies hardware device drivers only because vendor promised that driver works as expected?
See above.
Yes. And all software is bug free.
Now you believe in Easter bunnies.
Intellectual property has meaning only as source of income, direct or indirect. Protection of IP that prevents hardware sale doesn't sound reasonable. Where will come money from to cover for investment in research and development (intellectual property)?
You are right.
It is not a technical issue, alone. It has a lot to do with legal mine field that miscellaneous software license agreements present for open source developers. They don't want to be held liable for some accidental breach of agreement, and they don't want to have law experts team as part of kernel development team.
--
Regards,
Rajko.
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On 01/06/06 00:38, Rajko M wrote:
Darryl Gregorash wrote:Because that is where device drivers belong? Otherwise, I would like you
<snip>
What's next on the chopping list of proprietary modules? ATI and nVidia?Darryl,
Bye-bye ndiswrapper, perhaps? I know I won't be holding my breath
waiting for BluRay support to show up in the Linux kernel. If we are
going to be forced to use only hardware that is on some Linus-approved
list, I do hope that Linus will spend a reasonable amount of time to
make sure the list is a) kept current, and b) made widely available.
Otherwise, we might as well pack it in, and run out to buy XP.
why in the world one would like to put in the kernel foreign code.
to tell me just what user space I should use to load the driver for this
nice shiny new WiFi card that comes only with a proprietary device
driver. Will every user that logs in need to load his own driver to use
the card (I'd love to see how that would work), or will just one suffice?
Are you serious?
By definition operating system structure is divided in few subsystems. Kernel and user space is used to describe division in functions for 2 of those subsystems, not who and when is starting program. BTW, all startup scripts and programs including init, that are running for all users, are in user space.
Details:
http://plg.uwaterloo.ca/~itbowman/CS746G/a1/
http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/cs427/Architecture+of+Linux
If kernel provide would raw interface for your (any) WiFi card than user space program can be used to control the card. Graphic subsystem, X server, is most prominent user space driver. USB subsystem is another.
That is how any modern OS deals with device drivers (including XP).The only reason XP does it is because that is the way DOS did it.
Popular myth: "They didn't develop anything after DOS"
Well, they did.
The only thing that happens by trowing binary drivers out of kernel is
that responsibility for writing and debugging drivers is back to
vendors. Scream that they have no resources for that might be real,
but than it is up to them to open the code or technical data and let
people help them.
It has always been the responsibility of the vendor to develop and debug
his device drivers, if they are going to be distributed as proprietary
binaries. Do you seriously expect me to believe that vendors routinely
turn all their code and technical specs over to Microsoft, to let them
do what they will?
Good morning.
Do you think that MS certifies hardware device drivers only because vendor promised that driver works as expected?
Yeah, right. I believe in the easter bunny, too. The
most they will ever turn over is the device i/o map, to permit MS to
write its own driver.
See above.
Any vendor serious about supporting Linux will likewise make sure his
distributed device drivers are properly debugged.
Yes. And all software is bug free.
Now you believe in Easter bunnies.
But if no one can use
his drivers anyway, then any vendor is just going to walk away from
Linux support, if his only option is to make all his intellectual
property rights meaningless.
Intellectual property has meaning only as source of income, direct or indirect. Protection of IP that prevents hardware sale doesn't sound reasonable. Where will come money from to cover for investment in research and development (intellectual property)?
No, this is not a technical issue, it is a childish mind-game that can
only result in Linux users have less choice, not more.
You are right.
It is not a technical issue, alone. It has a lot to do with legal mine field that miscellaneous software license agreements present for open source developers. They don't want to be held liable for some accidental breach of agreement, and they don't want to have law experts team as part of kernel development team.
--
Regards,
Rajko.
--
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For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@xxxxxxxx
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@xxxxxxxx
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