Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3605 mails)

["Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx>]

On Sun, 2006-06-11 at 14:25 +0100, Kevanf1 wrote:
> Ok, it's been suggested in the past and I have fought shy of doing it.
> Will fetching my GMail via a POP mail reader make any difference to
> this behaviour?

Yes and no.

Yes, GMail will pass through the headers it received (e.g., Inbox).
No, anything GMail has replied to, will drop many headers (e.g., Sent).

> If it does I will have to bite the bullet and give it a go.

Google chooses not to follow the 30+ years of RFC822/SMTP standards by
tracking Message-ID.  Message-ID tracking is why you have nicely
threaded SMTP e-mail (as well as NNTP posts) _regardless_ of stupid
mailing list prefixes, etc...  It is the _only_ universal guarantee.

In the old O'Reilly Discussion Guidelines for NNTP/news servers, such as
the UsetNet, appending (e.g., key point) or even changing (e.g., "Was")
the subject not only allowed, but heavily encouraged so people don't
have to sort through dozens of posts to find relevant content --
especially as the content changes from the original subject.

Ironically enough, today's SMTP web archives, such a Pipermail (e.g.,
Mailman's default), the _exact_same_ Message-ID tracking does the same
inter-post tracking.  The more the SMTP client honors and keeps all
Message-ID and puts into follow-up, the better and more inter-linked the
web archive.

I get thanks _daily_ from people who find my posts in Google archives
for appending the subject with key points as well as changing the
subject when the content changes radically from the original subject.
They don't have to sort through dozens (if not hundreds) of follow-ups
to find relevant subject content.  The _only_ ones that complain are the
ones using GMail, which attempts to thread on subject which is rather
impossible/inconsistent.

I purposely only append the subject if at all possible so even sort by
subject still works.  Unfortunately, some mail readers can't deal with
the automated prefixes -- especially when cross-posting across mailing
lists (which is why I try to always "cut out" such prefixes).  Threading
SMTP/NNTP is the whole reason Message-ID has existed for 30+ years, and
Google not only utterly ignores it, but doesn't preserve the chain of
IDs in responses.

I _never_ complain about newer Internet users who top-post, don't bother
cutting out endless (often multiple) prefixes or follow other "new-age"
habits.  But I really tire of people who complain about my "old ways" of
growing up with the Internet in the '80s, 5-10 years before the web --
especially those using GMail and other "broken" SMTP readers.  There's a
reason us "old UseNet guys" post the way we do -- and it's something I'm
still thanked for _daily_ by -- again, ironically -- people who find my
stuff in Google searches.

Message-ID tracking combined with subject appending/changes actually
helps Google be far more effective in searching forums/archives.

> In SuSE I generally use (or used in the past) Kmail while in Windows
> (I know, I'm sorry for swearing) I use Pegasus Mail.  Both have pretty
> much exactly the same user interface.

Pegasus Mail was extremely IET standards complaint (IIRC), as well as
had excellent Novell Bindery, etc... support when I used it in the '90s.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith        Professional, technical annoyance
mailto:b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx  http://thebs413.blogspot.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Illegal Immigration = "Representation Without Taxation"



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