Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (6210 mails)
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Re: [SLE] SUSE Linux 10.0 Retail Box a Step Backwards
- From: Kevin Donnelly <kevin@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:19:23 +0100
- Message-id: <200510070919.23706.kevin@xxxxxxxxxx>
On Friday 07 October 2005 07:51, Carl Hartung wrote:
> If your market research tells you that most of the source DVDs you landed
> in the past never got pulled from their jackets, only gathered dust...
I agree entirely. I have SUSE boxes from 6.3 on, and I have NEVER looked at
the source-code disc. To my mind, that was in fact one of the main reasons
for using a "finished" distro like SUSE - you don't *have* to go to the
source. And nowadays, if you do, isn't it just as easy to download it,
especially since in the meantime you may have upgraded rpms, and the disc
source won't be relevant anyway?
> - if that research also tells you broadband is pervasive enough now that
> people can download whatever is "missing" from the box without too much
> difficulty; friends, relatives, employers, neighbors, coworkers, schools &
> libraries... whomever/wherever... someone will have the bandwidth they need
> for an afternoon...
Precisely. The way apt4rpm, yum and yast are developing, this sort of
seamless access is becoming ubiquitous, at least in Novell's primary markets.
How many people on this list, if they get one of those Linux mags with a
covermount CD which includes an interesting program, will go to the program's
website and download the latest version (or at least check if there's a later
version) rather than use the one on the CD?
> - if that research also tells you newcomers to Linux need better "hard
> copy" help while installing the product; that a special 'starter' book
> should be written to fulfill that need because the Admin and User guides
> weren't working so well for that group; that you could drop the price *and*
> provide such a new book...
Paradoxically, I am not convinced that the Admin/User guides were really
adding much value, so the starter book is probably the best way to go. 5
years ago, they were a very attractive addition, mainly because there was
very little end-user info about Linux out there, unless you were prepared to
go hunting through various websites. But look at things now - in the UK
there are 3 Linux mags, my local bookshop will have at least 4 or 5 books on
Linux, a bigger bookshop will have about a third as much as is devoted to
Microsoft Windows, and there are piles of SUSE boxes in the local PCWorld.
There's plenty of info now, and the systems themselves have improved so much
that they're a lot easier to get to grips with. Comparing the guides over
several releases, as I did, was also instructive - I got the impression that
not all the new things in every release got inserted, and some things that
were no longer relevant were kept. And of course it was impossible to deal
with everything in the detail you really need if you are a beginner anyway.
The high point of the books was around 7.1/7.2 (when there was also a
separate QuickStart guide), and I think that since then it has just become
too difficult to keep up. I personally would far rather Novell puts the
effort into a good wiki at openSUSE, and good tips pages at SUSE - I think
the feedback on the openSUSE list from SUSE employees is a very impressive
new development, and I hope that continues.
> - if that research led management to believe the price point was too high
> and inhibiting sales to prospective new Linux users...
This is a key point - Linux users already know what a good deal Linux is; but
there's no point preaching to the converted. If dropping the price to the
level of a game will persuade some more people to take a punt, then surely
it's worth doing. And there's no denying that SUSE is the Rolls-Royce of
distros - I had another example of this two nights ago, when someone wanted
to install Ubuntu. The installer threw up an error about 70% through, and
since it was late, I suggested seeing what would happen if we tried
installing 10.0RC1. Of course, that installed flawlessly.
> - if it said it was imperative to keep the *software* quality high but to
> also meet the lower price point...
If you want a plastic holder, buy one. If you want a printed book, print the
PDF 2- or 4-to-a-page. If you want a badge, buy one from ScotGold. If I'm a
new user, I'd rather have a hand-holding book and be sure of having a
dependable install.
> These people know the balancing act that is their business and it is
> impossible to make money and please absolutely everybody. Time will tell if
> the approach they've taken is correct. I certainly hope so, because it's a
> stellar series and the people at Novell/SUSE deserve our support.
Absolutely.
--
Pob hwyl / Best wishes
Kevin Donnelly
www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg
www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD
> If your market research tells you that most of the source DVDs you landed
> in the past never got pulled from their jackets, only gathered dust...
I agree entirely. I have SUSE boxes from 6.3 on, and I have NEVER looked at
the source-code disc. To my mind, that was in fact one of the main reasons
for using a "finished" distro like SUSE - you don't *have* to go to the
source. And nowadays, if you do, isn't it just as easy to download it,
especially since in the meantime you may have upgraded rpms, and the disc
source won't be relevant anyway?
> - if that research also tells you broadband is pervasive enough now that
> people can download whatever is "missing" from the box without too much
> difficulty; friends, relatives, employers, neighbors, coworkers, schools &
> libraries... whomever/wherever... someone will have the bandwidth they need
> for an afternoon...
Precisely. The way apt4rpm, yum and yast are developing, this sort of
seamless access is becoming ubiquitous, at least in Novell's primary markets.
How many people on this list, if they get one of those Linux mags with a
covermount CD which includes an interesting program, will go to the program's
website and download the latest version (or at least check if there's a later
version) rather than use the one on the CD?
> - if that research also tells you newcomers to Linux need better "hard
> copy" help while installing the product; that a special 'starter' book
> should be written to fulfill that need because the Admin and User guides
> weren't working so well for that group; that you could drop the price *and*
> provide such a new book...
Paradoxically, I am not convinced that the Admin/User guides were really
adding much value, so the starter book is probably the best way to go. 5
years ago, they were a very attractive addition, mainly because there was
very little end-user info about Linux out there, unless you were prepared to
go hunting through various websites. But look at things now - in the UK
there are 3 Linux mags, my local bookshop will have at least 4 or 5 books on
Linux, a bigger bookshop will have about a third as much as is devoted to
Microsoft Windows, and there are piles of SUSE boxes in the local PCWorld.
There's plenty of info now, and the systems themselves have improved so much
that they're a lot easier to get to grips with. Comparing the guides over
several releases, as I did, was also instructive - I got the impression that
not all the new things in every release got inserted, and some things that
were no longer relevant were kept. And of course it was impossible to deal
with everything in the detail you really need if you are a beginner anyway.
The high point of the books was around 7.1/7.2 (when there was also a
separate QuickStart guide), and I think that since then it has just become
too difficult to keep up. I personally would far rather Novell puts the
effort into a good wiki at openSUSE, and good tips pages at SUSE - I think
the feedback on the openSUSE list from SUSE employees is a very impressive
new development, and I hope that continues.
> - if that research led management to believe the price point was too high
> and inhibiting sales to prospective new Linux users...
This is a key point - Linux users already know what a good deal Linux is; but
there's no point preaching to the converted. If dropping the price to the
level of a game will persuade some more people to take a punt, then surely
it's worth doing. And there's no denying that SUSE is the Rolls-Royce of
distros - I had another example of this two nights ago, when someone wanted
to install Ubuntu. The installer threw up an error about 70% through, and
since it was late, I suggested seeing what would happen if we tried
installing 10.0RC1. Of course, that installed flawlessly.
> - if it said it was imperative to keep the *software* quality high but to
> also meet the lower price point...
If you want a plastic holder, buy one. If you want a printed book, print the
PDF 2- or 4-to-a-page. If you want a badge, buy one from ScotGold. If I'm a
new user, I'd rather have a hand-holding book and be sure of having a
dependable install.
> These people know the balancing act that is their business and it is
> impossible to make money and please absolutely everybody. Time will tell if
> the approach they've taken is correct. I certainly hope so, because it's a
> stellar series and the people at Novell/SUSE deserve our support.
Absolutely.
--
Pob hwyl / Best wishes
Kevin Donnelly
www.kyfieithu.co.uk - Meddalwedd Rhydd yn Gymraeg
www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD
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