Hi, On Wed, 31 Aug 2005, Andreas Girardet wrote:
No, 10.0 will not be the release of the year. At least not over the net.
Distributors have lost all their discipline.
They have let the distributions explode in size, either hoping that "the mirror hierarchy" would make it to the users or simply neglecting the server load aspects.
SUSE- 9.3 was the last acceptable "net distribution" - with an addon in size of 16 GB (sources were released earlier). That was already a huge struggle for the servers, but ftp.gwdg.de could stand to spill out more than 70 MByte/sec continuously for almost 4 days, due to the (huge, only ftp.kernel.org has more) 12 GB RAM. That was more than 4 TByte a day.
Really your statement is too absolute and actually quite absurd.
Ha! I am sitting here and watching what is actually happening. Not enough sleep tomight for sure. I see no chance that ftp.gwdg.de will be ready at release time. Check what would happen to the Beta4 distribution if I - reflecting the facts - would take an outage for ftp.gwdg.de and do BIOS and YAST updates and check all the filesystems in the morning...
I have heard statements like that before in the ISP industry. People saying the net will never be successfully graphical (when html was introduced), since the 2400 baud modem's and ISP backends would not handle those sizes reasonably (yes I am that old). Do you know the future of technology?
Boy, I am living the present time. Especially tonight. We wont reach the published goal. Not getting nervous about that?
Or Bill G saying the 486 will be the last and best CPU of the century. Absolute and absurd. Technology moves at a huge rate and we just need to find ways to create a distributed workload while downloading, as bittorrent or jidgo does or create servers with Terabyte of RAM, which will happen at some point. Or virtualize servers, load balance them effectively. A proper load balancer could already do the job quite nicely and redistribute the load between any mount of servers unless they have the same directory structure.
A load balancer is pretty useless if you have noone to pay for N servers. I guess you are more drunken than me at the moment.
The issue is that if the main rsync server get's hit hard no one can mirror. This needs to be adressed.
I DID address that, I guess.
A 1 CD installer as I did it solves issues also, since that is all most users need. Single addon packages can be installed seperately
Not enough; we need "more discipline" from the distributors. You know, my problem is the actual situation and not a future dream.
All 10.0 betas were too large for my RAM, and even with the trick to redirect all http://download.opensuse.org/*i386*iso requests to ftp.gwdg.de for getting tight enough buffer cache hits so that those isos never expired did not reach the 9.3 numbers.
the issue is that mirrors could not update from the main site in a reasonable time and that therefore everyone hit the main site. A dog that bites his own tail.
No, a SUSE dog that bites the GWDG tail.
Tomorrow 10 am is the next beta release time, but I bet none of the mirrors will be ready at that time...
Correct. That is the issue and not that 9.3 was the last Net distribution. What an absurd statement. The last .. yeah right!
Come on, boy, I see the behaviour of all the Linux distributors day over day. SUSE is still more "disciplined" than Debian (hazardous childs - 60 GB at once!) and MandrXXX, but IT IS ALREADY TOO MUCH, with a tendency to grow if they do not wake up. In fact it is TOO LATE to not have bad issues. Maybe you understand this. If not, you will experience it.
10.0 is huge. I don't think you realize that the market attractiveness of the Novell/SUSE proposition is the first that can effectively provide with a marketing and partner/reseller channel that only compares to very few companies in IT and certainly no single other Linux company has this kind of network. This market penetration and the huge step of creating openSUSE and allowing people to download a SUSE version on day 1 of the Gold release and not as it used to be months after it was in the shops, creates exactly the kind of hype and dynamics that will fuel our success and will create more and more successful releases. To say that 9.3 was the last one to be successfully via the net, just because of some (solvable) technical difficulties is really absurd, don't you think?
No. The "hype" is far beyond 9.3 yet. But the situation is much more worse. DUE TO THE IDIOTIC DISTRIBUTION SIZE! Crazy! Far too big! Who can stand that, tell me or shut down!
I need a more "mirror hierarchy sensitive" behavior from SUSE, or -very simple - a special hardware sponsoring, a bit expensive (but cheaper than the HP sponsoring for ftp.kernel.org). ;- ))
correct. Solutions and not absolute statements that are per definition a priori wrong. Simple Logic: All Swedes are blond. No I don't think so, since I actually know a few Swedes, that are not blond at all. As absurd as your statement.
Totally without help, your whole statement. More worse than that: I feel misunderstood. Best would be I would panic my kernel and reboot not before monday... Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)