celerion .. various speeds. Not as good as equivilent P4, stay away if you can centrino .. various speeds. Really the Pentium-M. Centroni is a brand that means the combination of the
Hi list, I had an unbelievable good response to my request for some pointers. I want to thank all those kind people who took the time and effort to try to make my choice easy .. I still like the IBM. Here follow all responses from 4 mail lists compiled in this document. Hope with all this on one doc it my help some one else. ****************************** NEWBIE maillist.. Johan; There's a lot of things to consider when buying a laptop. My personal preference is a laptop that can handle a normal P4, and NOT a P4M. While this means that it will use battery power faster, most of the time I'm using the laptop, I'm plugged in to AC power somewhere. P4M's (Pentium 4 Mobile CPU's) are OK, but a standard P4 and laptop that uses Hyper-Threading will always outperform a P4M without question. Also, you should be able to upgrade the P4 as new ones come out, and P4's will always be less expensive than the P4M's. One other thing about P4's. Some of the newer P4's also have onboard cache that is one MB, and not 512K. This makes a huge difference in how fast the laptop will run. All that extra performance will keep you happy with the laptop much longer than a Centrino or Celeron could ever hope to do. Celeron CPU's are basically the same as a P4, but have a lot less cache onboard, and this is what makes them slower. Centrino's aren't an actual CPU, but a collection of P4M, Intel Chipset, Intel graphics GPU, and wireless and/or Bluetooth technologies built-in. Once I knew they used the P4M, I never kept looking for more details so you might want to look into that a bit more. I've set up or owned Toshiba, Compaq and Asus laptops. My problem is that my clients see whichever one I have and offer to buy them right there! The next one on my shopping list is the ECS G900 which can be viewed here; http://www.ecsusa.com/products/g900.html And that says it all. I know ECS isn't always known for their quality, but I have to see how this one runs before passing judgement. I'm hoping that it will surprise me. Since laptops are very expensive, most people don't buy new ones very often. My philosophy is to buy the fastest, most powerful one you can buy for the best price, so that your investment lasts a long time. Remember that many laptops will have modems which aren't supported by Linux, and others can be a real pain to set up. If you manage to get a modem working, consider yourself very lucky! If possible, try to find one that comes without an OS, so that you can do a fresh install and not have to worry about a Windows recovery CD set erasing your whole hard drive. Lanman ************************************** processor, chipset and WiFi card. It has a slower clock speed, but more work per cycle a la AMD, giving a cooler chip that uses less power and does the same amount of work. My 1.6GHz Pentium-M compiles a kernel a few seconds faster than my desktop 2400+. Intel's reliance on the Megehertz myth the past few yeares to try and best AMD has cost them with the Pentium-M IMO.
The centrino seem to be the slower one than the other two.
Do not mind price .. hardware .. trying to find what would be best in long run between the 3 processors. In a laptop, the Pentium-M IMHO. Kindly some pointers and suggestions to IBM laptops .. please. I like the T series the best. A great blend of portability and power. The R's are to big and bulky, and the others are crippled or too small. /g Greg
I would like to put in a good word for Dell laptops. I have used 2 different models. The Inspiron 8000 and the Inspiron 9100. Both are considered heavy at around 8 or 9 pounds. The reason I chose them is that they both are easily setup with Mandrake. I dual boot into both of them. I had minor installation problems, both easily resolved with an email to this list. Another reason that I chose them is that they are both considered gaming machines with dedicated (upgradeable) video cards. No dependence on 'integrated' graphics. The 9100 is new and has a 3.2 Ghz P4 (not mobile). I generally use this machine at two different locations but plugged into power at both. I'm not sure if you have been pointed to the linux laptops page yet, so here's a real good link for that information..... http://www.linux-laptop.net/ Best of luck in your research, I'll give one vote for Dell. (They also have dedicated forums for issues that may arise). Bill W. ***************************
Best of luck in your research, I'll give one vote for Dell. (They also have dedicated forums for issues that may arise). Hoyt
Dell needed a good word. I was about to place them with gateway. Dell has also recently anounced two linux corporate workstations in their inventory. I can't afford one but at least it is a start. Dell is making a move to include the penquin. Dennis M. Linux user #180842
From what I could understand, the P4 will be a std. desktop type
From what I could understand, the P4 will be a std. desktop type
I've installed 9.2 on a couple of different IBM's, and a friend of mine put
10.0 on one. With 9.2 the laptops had a Savage vid card, and I had to
download and install a different driver than the default that came with
Mandrake in order to get the proper screen resolution. The Savage may have
been fixed in 10, because my friend's laptop also had that card and he didn't
mention that he had any problems. Another gotcha is the LinModem, which requires downloading a driver (ltmodem-kv_2.4.22_10mdk-8.26a9-1.i586.rpm).
There was a thread on making the 2.4-kernel driver work with 2.6 here during
the past week. My friend with 10 has broadband, so he didn't bother with the
modem and I have no more info on that. Everything else worked right from the
get-go.
Erylon
****************************
SLE maillist..
I agree with he IBM Thinkpad choice - been using them 14 years. Each
time I stray for a year (Dell, Toshiba) I end up back. The big reasons
are operating system support - two years down the road they will not
tell you "we don't support linux" on your model or "we only support the
original version of Windows that came on your model".
Here's my understanding of the speed of the chips. Intel has made mobile
processors absolutely un-understandable, with Pentium M, Mobile Pentiums
and Centrinos (all are really P4's).
- At a given clock speed the Centrino's are by far the fastest. As I
recall a Centrino at 1.5Ghz is faster than the normal mobile (not sure
which model) Pentium at around 2.5GHz. Centrino's are your best bet in
a small, lightweight laptop like the Tnn series.
- The Celeron's are generally less capable at a given clockspeed than
the same speed Pentium's. They have less processor cache and are usually
found in value line laptops.
- If what you want is a fast, desktop replacement you probably want a
G40 or similar with the fastest speed P4 you can get - 3Ghz or faster).
It will be bigger/heavier than a T40 though.
- For a lightweight professional laptop that can also do software
development, is fast and has a standard 3yr warranty (always check for
this though) you want a T40. I saw someone respond mentioning an X40 -
its very small and light, you might ask them about that if its
interesting.
Hope this helps
- Richard
Oops - my math is off this early on a Saturday, been using them since
October 1992 when the first Thinkpad 700C came out. I guess that is 12
years, not 14 :)
********************************
IBM is a good choice. You should check on eBay for IBM laptops SOLD BY IBM.
They sell a lot of equipment on eBay. I bought an X30 laptop a year ago for
about 33% off and it had a 3 yr warranty on it from IBM. A good deal IMHO.
Bruce
********************************
A friend of mine has an IBM Thinkpad T42 and has some problems with
support for the Centrino chipset. He is running SuSE 9.1.
I would strongly suggest that you go to http://www.linux-on-laptops.com
before buying a laptop.
Jerry
********************************
FYI: The A3 models of IBM were particularly good for Linux - obsolete now.
Several SONY models are feature for feature identical to some IBM
models and there is a active support group on the linux-sony mailing
list (google for it). I like my Sony.
Something to consider: Don't get built in wireless. You have the pcmcia
slot and might as well use it. ANY builtin wireless will obsolete before
this time next year (usable but obsolete). The wireless field is changing
so fast it makes little sense to have this embedded.
John Andersen
***************************
FWIW, this ThinkPad R31 came with built in 802.11b wireless, which works fine with SuSE. For my needs, it's adequate. Also, IBM has produced
WiFi upgrades for some models. The upgrade involves simply replacing
one small board.
James
But at what price?
54meg 802.11G pcmcia cards can now be had for under
under $30, and Buy.com has the Asante 802.11G for under
$14 after rebate.
**************************
IBM notebooks tend to be well supported in Linux. For example, I'm
typing this message on a ThinkPad R31, using wireless to my home
network, while sitting out on my balcony and drinking a beer. The
wireless, modem and everything else I use works fine with SuSE 9.1,
right out of the box. I didn't have to download any drivers for any
hardware.
James
**************************
Or Linux Certified (http://linuxcertified.com). I have the LC2430, and it
works great with Suse 9.1. The built-in modem and ethernet, as well as the
external wireless card they sell with the laptop, all worked after a plain
install of Suse 9.1. So does accelerated graphics. The only thing I haven't
worked out yet is how to connect the laptop to an external monitor or
projector and have a resolution I evaluated laptops for my wife recently and am looking at a new one for
myself. O only buy Dell, but that is another story altogether. My wife
bought HP/Compaq. Got it yesterday - looks VERY nice (droole)
Now about those processors.
processor, and thus be quite power hungry. The Centrino is built for a
mobile device (like a laptop) that will obviously allow your battery to
last much longer. Look at the power/duration specs. on the machine and
that should indicate something of what I am saying.
But, yes, I agree, the centrino IS a lot slower than the P4 equivalents.
other than 640 x 480 on that monitor. I am
sure this can be done somehow, but I couldn't be bothered yet to play around
with the XF86Config file.
Claus
*************************
Besides www.linux-on-laptops.com, take a look at http://www.tuxmobil.org
It's an excellent resource.
Barry
*************************
Well, as for laptops, I personally prefer by FAR the IBM laptop
T-Series... And for IBM Lappers, that's the only series I really like...
Now, there is a group in Atlanta that will preconfig and ship a lapper
with whichever linux mutation you wish. Ran into them at Linuxworld this
spring in NYC. Checkout www.emperorlinux.com
Don
***********************
There's no doubt that IBM make very solid laptops but they are by no means the only Linux-friendly ones: the converse isn't necessarily true, either!
I'm running SuSE 9.1 on an HP Pavilion zd7000 and previously had an ASUS L/C3000 - no problems with either. Worked out of the box (except for wireless on the Pavilion, which is fine now, after some fiddling). Just might be worthwhile casting your net a little wider. You might want to take a look at http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/
Please don't think I'm trying to put you off IBM...........!
David
**********************
Before you get to far into selecting a laptop, google on
'complaint
Intel p4 .. various speeds. "fastest" CPU, big working caches. celerion .. various speeds. celeron: disabled (or much smaller) caches than the P4 centrino .. various speeds. much less power consumption, performance on par with faster clock rate P4s but those appear to be the interactive office work type applications. The centrino seem to be the slower one than the other two. Noted that the AMDs are lower clock rates, but performance on pat with higher clock rate P4s?? MHz/GHz aren't everything with regards to performance. Hendrik
Speed comparisons for the intel chips is http://developer.intel.com/hardwaredesign/processors.htm#2 click on "Intel® Processor Performance Benchmarks". Like with other cpu's, you cannot really compare the MHz speeds of a mobile and desktop p4 cpu. If battery life and portability is your primary concern get a centrino platform, otherwise a desktop p4 might be best. Jacobus Brink ********************* Regards Enjoy -- Johan Sch Registered Linux User #330034 May this be a good day for learning