Hi All. I got quite a bit of assistance working on this (none from SuSE), and I want to thank all of them. In order to better understand what was happening, I installed the latest Slackware, Debian and Mandrake distributions. I was also prepared to install RedHat 9, but didn't need to. The Mandrake 10.0 distribution provided the solution to all the fundamental problems plus a few others, to wit. - Boot time: >9 minutes *to* <90 seconds. - Scanner: doesn't work except as superuser *to* works fine with normal user after installation with no additional configuration. - DualHead display: Requires trial and error with YAST *to* works after installation with no additional configuration. - Installation options: None available (to avoid problematic boot processes) *to* available (e.g. disable hotplug). - Vendor support: Promised, needed and non-existent *to* not needed. - USB: problematic *to* no problems. - KDE: Works OK *to* improved screen presentation e.g. more suitable configuration from install. - Speed: Slower than Win2K *to* Faster than Win2K and much faster than SuSE 9.0 - Kernel: 2.4. optimized for AMD *to* 2.6. not optimized. - Ease of installation: Very long with moderate difficulty *to* fast and easy. - Graphic installation: Pretty but sometimes confusing *to* simple and straightforward. - Printer: Worked after additional configuration *to* worked after installation. - GRUB: Restore MBR fails *to* Restore MBR works. - VGA boot screen: flips back and forth from graphic to text, text hard to read *to* easy to read (except it goes so fast) text mode. - User group support: Great *to* too soon to tell but looks good. I'm sure there are many features of SuSE that are better than Mandrake, but here I'm focusing on the problems I had with SuSE that basically made it unusable for me as a desktop. So I'm sticking with Mandrake for a desktop - & I'm happy as a clam with SuSE for my servers. I expect to pay for what I use, I have now purchased 5 distributions of SuSE. The last three were to achieve a useable desktop replacement for Windows, and the last three were also a waste of time and money for me. Larry Johnson, KeepItSimpleEngineering, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Johnson KISE [mailto:ljohnson@kise-inc.com] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 15:18 To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: RE: [SLE] Boot time excessive for clean SuSE 9.0 install
Well after looking at the syslog with full debugging turned on, it's clear that hotplugging is the culprit.
So I disable the four USB 1.1 ports from the motherboard BIOS, and now I get a 4 minute boot, down from 9 minutes.
So the I disable USB hotplugging with SuSE configuration to avoid my USB 2.0 ports, and now I get a 1 minute boot.
I review the HOTPLUG docs in SuSE 9.0 - practically zilch.
I go to hotplugging at sourceforge, http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-hotplug/ and about the time the SuSE scripts were written signed off, there are threads about all kinds of problems with USB and delays - some from SuSE. There is a bug reported 25 July 2004 about this same issue. (997624)
This explains the NOHOTPLUG and NOCOLDPLUG options in SuSE 9.1.
So I say that SuSE sold a distribution with a buggy boot scheme, didn't provide a workable alternative, that they were aware of it, and are unwilling to acknowledge it. I would love to be wrong about this.
Apparently (unverified) the use of multiple & mixed versions of USB hubs triggers the problem - standard features of my Gigabyte GA-7VRXP Rev 2.0 motherboard.
There are some indications that the problem also exists in SuSE 9.1 as well as other distributions that use hotplugging.
I have spent quite a bit of time discovering this unpleasant fact, and I am very unhappy about it.
Pressure from users (as well as the Linux community) has moved MS to improve their products and practices, perhaps it could work for SuSE/Novell too.
Larry Johnson, KeepItSimpleEngineering,Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: doc [mailto:kd4e@verizon.net] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 18:29 To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Boot time excessive for clean SuSE 9.0 install
So I tried NOHOTPLUG=YES as a boot parameter, and then NOHOTPLUG=YES and NOCOLDPLUG=YES, but boot is still hanging in the same places - it seems that these boot parameters don't work in 9.0.
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I'm about ready to conclude that the SuSE desktop is not ready for prime time, and that SuSE doesn't care. I know that's harsh - but skimpy and apparently inaccurate documentation along with too much stuff
Larry Johnson KISE wrote: that does not
work like HP printers/Scanners (only works under root)/PC Webcams and meaningless error messages/unstable applications/too much system maintenance have tolerance limits in users, especially me. Too much time, not enough results.
I short, I'm bummed about it. Larry Johnson, KeepItSimpleEngineering,Inc.
Why are you judging Suse on an *old* version, that seems to make very little good technological sense.
You need to run 9.1 with all of the updates before making any valid judgments about whether or not "SuSE" is "ready for prime time".
I have to say that the powers-that-be continue to insist upon Microsoft products where I work and we suffer *daily* troubles with lost files, crashing windows, incompatibilities, unnecessary virus vulnerabilities, constant needs for "critical security updates", etc.
In the real world there is no perfect desktop but I have chosen Suse 9.1 and run it on my notebook at home and at work -- interfaced with the lesser Microsoft machines -- because I trust it for security and stability that no version of MS Windows has ever offered.
IMHO, YMMV ... ;-)
-- Thanks! & 73, doc kd4e West Central Florida 100% Linux. Suse 9.1 Drake, Hallicrafters, Heathkit, TenTec, Yaesu Radio Life: http://www.gospelcom.net/twr/ Linux-Incompatible hardware is defective! USA Pres. Election 2004: http://www.rnc.org/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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