Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (5100 mails)

[Riccardo Facchini <abief_ag_-suseml@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- Eugene Lee <__> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 01:27:34AM -0700, Riccardo Facchini wrote:
> : --- Eugene Lee <__> wrote:
> : > On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 04:06:23AM -0700, Riccardo Facchini
> wrote:
> : > : --- Mike McMullin <__> wrote:
> : > : > On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 05:17, peter Nikolic wrote:
> : > : > > On Thursday 10 Jun 2004 09:46, Eugene Lee wrote:
> : > : > > >
> : > : > > > At this stage, SuSE can NEVER be a home desktop solution.
>  Why?
> : > : > > > 
> : > : > > > Because there is no simple control panel to chage
> : > : > > > fundamentally trivial settings like switching duplex
> : > : > > > of the Ethernet card on boot.
> : > : 
> : > : Question N? 1: How many times a day do you change switching
> duplex
> : > : of the ethernet card on boot?
> : > 
> : > Never.  However, due to the requirements of datacenter, the
> machine
> : > must *not* default to slower autonegotiation.  I haven't yet
> found a
> : > way via YaST to do this.
> : 
> : Maybe I'm missing something.... are we discussing if SuSE 9.1 is a
> Home
> : Desktop Solution or a Datacenter class server?
> 
> The subject line didn't specify which SuSE 9.1 distribution.  I am
> working with 9.1 Professional version.  However, my specific feature
> request should be, IMO, available on any version of SuSE.

You're right: it does not specify which SuSE 9.1 distribution, but:
AFAIK:
SuSE SERVER family is still in release 8:
http://www.suse.de/en/business/products/server/index.html
no mention of release 9 nor 9.1

SuSE DESKTOP family is in release 1:
http://www.suse.de/en/business/products/sld/index.html
again: no mention of release 9 nor 9.1

SuSE 9.1 is only mentioned on the private (i.e. non business), and it 
comes in two releases: Personal and Professional:
http://www.suse.de/en/private/index.html

So: SuSE 9.1 refers to the private user release, and I don't see how
this release can get into a Datacenter as a Server. 
Strict rules are normally only part of the Datacenter "core". and the
only thing that gets into the core of a DC is a server or, in case of
need, a support workstation that has been certified to enter into the
core. Normally, the peripheral network should not be as strict as the
core, because of the people that moves in and out.

So I see logical that YaST on SuSE 9.1 (either personal or pro) does
not give quick access to something as esotheric as the duplex on boot,
because SuSE 9.1 is not rated for strict DC work. Anyway, that
particular point can be fixed using other tools.


> 
> : > Also, if the machine is rebooted for some reason, then I would
> have
> : > to remember to drive to the datacenter, log in, and change the
> : > duplex.  This is extremely stupid and stands against The Unix
> Way.

I personally don't work with SLES 8, but I'm sure that if you buy the
support pack for SLES, SuSE will be more than available to answer you
about that question.

> : 
> : I repeat myself:
> : 
> : Maybe I'm missing something.... are we discussing if SuSE 9.1 is a
> Home
> : Desktop Solution or a Datacenter class server?
> 
> My assertion, which is only my own opinion, is that SuSE is not ready
> to
> be a desktop solution.  My proof points to the fact that
> user-friendly
> interfaces like YaST cannot be used to make relatively simple changes
> such as setting the duplex of an Ethernet card on boot.

Again, what's relatively simple change for a person is a
null-requirement for many others. I don't see the average john doe
needing to change the duplex of an Ethernet card, because that same
avegarge john doe will not live in a Datacenter.

> 
> As to the general question, average Linux users are more intelligent
> and
> more persistence if they want to make things work.  Average home
> users
> are not interesting in runlevels, enabling/disabling kernel modules,
> building and upgrading tools from SRPMs.  Average home users want to
> browse the web, send email, write Word docs, burn CDs and DVDs,
> manage
> photos from their digital cameras, use webcams to do online chatting,
> transfer files via external USB/Firewire hard/Flash drives.  So while
> average Linux users might share similar needs as average home users,
> the
> converse is rarely true.  Compared to other home desktop OS platforms
> (i.e. Windoze XP and Mac OS X), SuSE (and all Linux distros) fulfills
> some of needs of average home users but misses other needs.

I agree with you, average users don't want to know about runlevels...
but I beleive that a user curious enough to switch OS (even from
windoze to Mac, or from Mac to Windoze, God forbids) is not what I
consider "average".

> 
> At this stage, SuSE can NEVER be a home desktop solution.

It is. Only, things need to be investigated. M$ and Apple have their
manuals and call centers (for what they're worth), and Linux has the
web.

> 
> But maybe it will get better in the future.  That's the hope.

Everithing needs to get better. Sometimes, even life itself.

best regards,



=====
Riccardo G. Facchini