On Friday 08 November 2002 13:32, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:
* Kevin McLauchlan;
on 08 Nov, 2002 wrote:
[...]
Now it is woth to mention that I do not have any of the cutting edge softwares' applications installed system wide. Not that I do not install them but they are only avaliable via my $PATH and they are basicly Docbook related stuff where they will not affect the system.
Er, could you expand on that? Not Docbook, but what you mean about "system wide" versus "only available in my $PATH"? I thought "in my $PATH" meant available from anywhere... system wide. [... about OOo 1.0.x ...]
Please don't tell me that *that* is a risky, developmental software.
No but playing around with KDE3.1 when it is not even it's beta stage would be cutting edge or using a 2.5.47 kernel is.
When I install 8.1 in a week (or three), I'll get whatever version of KDE is on the DVD (or on the CDs, if my Pioneer 116 DVD drive still doesn't boot... ahem.... and then, I'd take whatever YOU coughed up for updates... until the time when one of the many broken things on my system (there are multiple broken things each and every install, since 6.whatever when I started with SuSE) can be fixed by newer KDE (according to some guru or three, on this list, and my lack of sleep which will impair my judgement).
Well, that sounds good, too, except that my experience with (say) YaST is that it does many things quite well, but it hides many things and does not give the possibility of optional approaches within its interface.
Well I agree YaST does not do everything like if you remeber the thread couple of days ago regarding configuring apache while making sure SuSEconfig does not bark. That approach editing a new file and making sure /etc/sysconfig/apache has it and SuSEconfig --module apache will parse it is basicly understanding the limitation of what YaST can do and can not do. YaST is an ideal administration tool for a basic system.
Ah. Didn't see that, because I don't run apache... yet. But, if I did, and if I followed that advice, would I then be able to use YaST and YOU for all the other system stuff? Or would YaST/YOU constantly try to re-write the config files back to the earlier settings that broke apache? In other words, by taking the initiative to bypass YaST/YOU for one app, am I defacto abandoning it and condemning myself to do ALL updates by hand? I ask this because I know that YaST writes to config files (or sets up what will be written when SuSEConfig is run??) in a number of places, and it seems logical that it might overwrite hand-written edits "for my own good", the next time it's run. [...]
Thus, the tool itself should have perhaps a novice and an expert mode, with various nags and expository text files (maybe even links to some of the recent threads on this list? :-) for the newbies, which could be turned off for the advanced user.
Well I liked the approach but human nature always is curious about the expert or advanced option as "Novice" is not what majority would like to hear. So yes but :-)
Ok, but at least there'd be an obvious line-in-the-sand marking off relatively safe territory from "Here be dragons!" [...]
Well I agree that the rpm dependecy is a major headache. If you want something installed for example kdenetwork3 then immeiatle I am told to install ppp why on the earth some one thinks I have to install ppp maybe I am on a ethernet network and I have no intention of using "ppp" but I think it is a packaging philosophy and to find the right combination will take time
Now you can remove ppp package but then you welcome the future problems
toganm@earth:~/projects/sfnet/suse/website> sudo rpm -evvv --test ppp D: opening database mode 0x0 in /var/lib/rpm D: requires: ppp unsatisfied. D: package kdenetwork3 require not satisfied: ppp error: removing these packages would break dependencies: ppp is needed by kdenetwork3-3.0.4-6
So what I learnt, to live with it and I have no headaches when I install a package (knock the wood)
That's you. But, you probably know how to disable ppp or direct its efforts to null, or something. I, on the other hand, would find that my network and ISP connections (via my router and ADSL modem) had been usurped by a ppp that I didn't need-or-want, and every time I tried to browse a URL, I'd have an error message saying "Modem not responding" or pppd not configured". I just made that up (although, I think I had that in 7.3 when I first got ADSL...hmm), but it's an example of the weird things I've come to almost expect. Everywhere. With sound, with DVDs, with USB-anything, with fonts, with joysticks, with 3D acceleration, with Java versus Javascript... with... name it. And my clock still refuses to keep proper time, even though it's correct in bios... aaaaaaaaaaah! /kevin