Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (2407 mails)

[milanuk@xxxxxxxxx (Monte Milanuk)]

--- Michael Hasenstein <mha@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Ron Heron wrote:
> > 
> > Hello,  I have been using SuSE since 6.0.  I upgraded
> > to 6.2, and then 6.4.  It seems to me, though, that
> > getting the system usable, and maintaining current
> > software is becoming more and more difficult with
> > SuSE.  Maybe it is just me, but I have noticed
> 
> I cannot agree.
> 
> 
> > numerous postings where people have MAJOR problems
> > using SuSE upgrades and patches, or basic Linux
> 
> This is a ridiculous observation. Who else would post
> anything here?!
> This mailing list is for problems and their solutions.
> 
> 
> > upgrades on a SuSE-installed system.  Here are my
> > examples:
> > 
> > 1)  Upgraded to Kernel 2.2.16, and the system was
> > unusable.  Why can't I upgrade to a new kernel
> 
> a) That is hardly a SuSE problem if you choose to upgrade
> one of hte
> major components without knowing what you're doing.
> 
> b) Correct, the stock 2.2.16 is next to unusable. This is
> why the SuSE
> 2.2.16 is a 2.2.16 + several MB of patches, for both
> stability and
> features.
> 
> 
> > downloaded from the internet?  Every time (5 times
> > now) I tried to put in a new kernel on a SuSE distro,
> > it failed miserably.  But, I was able to upgrade other
> > Linux systems at work (RH and Debian)  I had to fall
> > back to the SuSE kernel.  Is not linux linux?
> 
> It is, and I never had problems. Of course, one has to
> know what one is
> doing.
> 
> 
> > 2)  Installed "Almost Everything" and Almost nothing
> > works!  Fresh, out of the box, ran an Almost
> > Everything install on my test box, just for fun.
> > Well, I was utterly amazed at how many things just do
> > not work!.  I try to open up Kgrabber, and it tells me
> > I don't have this installed, or that installed, so it
> > cannot function, and the program is just taking up
> > space.  Why would SuSE package and install software
> > that can't work?
> 
> ??? Thanks for the detailed bug report.
>

So, are you saying you want a bug report for every package
that doesn't work right, or has unresolved dependencies
_out_of_the_box_?  That would be more than a few, imho. 
People are somewhat used to stuff working when it comes
from SuSE, and I think the beef here is that some stuff
doesn't just flat doesn't work out of the box, or
downloaded, from the SuSE mirrors.  I had one box that the
kernel upgrade (using the binary rpms, thank you very much)
was a complete nightmare.  Another one, piece of cake. 
Using the same files downloaded from a SuSE mirror, shared
over the lan via nfs.  

Oh, I know.  Now you are going to complain that we don't
give specific examples.  But when I do, are you going
shuffle me off w/ a 'why didn't you submit a bug report?'? 
Why?  Because for one, these are pretty basic.  If SuSE was
going to do something about them, I think they would have
done it before the software came out, as there is little
chance they could have missed them (I could be wrong)

a) kblade:  Requires bladenc -- where is it? finding a
source package on the bladenc homepage is a PITA, why
bother even including the package in 6.4?

b) opso:  Upgrading to the kernel 2.2.16 breaks the oss
package that comes w/ 6.4.  So if you use opso, you now
have no sound, but a nice new kernel.  Use alsa 0.5.8 you
say?  It claims amixer needs reinstalled, but amixer isn't
a separate package.  amixer complains about needing
libasound.so.1, when the system has libasound.so, and the
normal link of libasound.so to libasound.so.1 doesn't work.
 Fun, fun, fun.

If you want more examples, I know I can dig them up, and
others can to, if we have time.  The point is, particularly
w/ ones like these, updates from suse that break previously
working packages, or depend on packages that suse doesn't
even package, are below what we the consumers expect from
SuSE.

Monte

 
> 
> > 3)  Decided to upgrade to XFree86 4.0.  I downloaded
> > the software from SuSE, and followed SuSE instructions
> > EXACTLY, and it absolutely would not work.  After
> > several hours, I ftp'd via command line to
> > XFree86.org, downloaded the precompiled binaries,
> > followed THEIR instructions, and it worked perfectly.
> > The only exception was the gray screen instead of
> > background, and missing xsession file.  Still have the
> > background problem, but the xsession problem was the
> > fault of SuSE erasing the file during install.
> 
> I'd really love to stand behind you when you do this...
> 
> 
> > 4)  Did everyone see the post from the poor guy who
> > upgraded apache, (again, a SuSE upgrade) and it now
> > doesn't work?
> 
> There's ALWAYS someone where everything go wrong, and
> (almost) always
> it's NOT our fault.
> 
> 
> > What is going on here?  I cannot believe that SuSE is
> > releasing 7.0 in 10 days, and their 6.4 is such a
> > heap.  Or maybe that is the plan.....
> 
> All examples you described but one are YOUR problems,
> with stuff you
> downloaded. I've no idea what you do, but since I do this
> a lot and it
> always works immediately... (no comment)
> 
> 
> > Well, please, if anyone can shed some light on this
> > stuff, I would appreciate it.  I hope it is just me,
> > cause then I can do something about it.
> 
> How about: If you want a stable system, don't mess
> around?
> And: have a second system on hand for playing and trying
> out new stuff.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Michael Hasenstein
> http://www.suse.de/~mha/
> SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany)
> SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US)
> 
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