Well, I've got some not so positive feedback for your list... See comments in-line.
Herman Knief
On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Jack Barnett wrote:
->>> Talking Points: Features and benefits that everyone in the Linux ->>> community agrees to and presents to the newbie population in unison. ->>> ->>> Top Ten Talking Points In Linux ->>> ->>> After all the responses, I like the following: ->>> ->>> (Talking Point List Version 0.02) ->>> 1. Linux is stable ---- does not need to reboot to refresh itself, a ->>> production system rarely crashes
Not true. I run one of the largest public web sites in the world, using Linux as a front end (I think we are second to Google.) We have a LOT of problems with systems crashing, but generally under very high loads.
What is the site? What are these machines doing, just spewing out web pages from apache? Why not configure apache to refuse connections or not to spawn so many childern? Even under Solaris if apache is configured with a really high "MaxClients", it will won't bring the machine down, but slow it down enough that it would be better off down. Even in Solaris or *BSD if run something like $cat `/tmp/load` #!/usr/bin/perl -w while (1) { system ("/tmp/load &"); } $/tmp/load It won't crash the machine, but make it un-useable. I haven't seen a machine yet that is gracefull under really high loads, but it shouldn't crash unless there is something really wrong. Does it leave a crash dump?
->>> 2. Freedom / Here to stay ---- Due to Open Source users and vendors are ->>> sure of the staying power of the OS. (Will not go out of business - ->>> thus not be supported)
Freedom yes, but try getting REAL support for kernel problems. I happen to know Linus personally and have dealt directly with Alan Cox on some of our issues, and still have problems getting fixes.
Just because it doesn't get fixed, doesn't mean you don't have the Freedom to fix it. You have to freedom to bear arms (atleast in the US), just because you don't own a gun, doesn't mean you don't have that Freedom. You are free to fix it yourself and you are also free to pay someone $300 per hour to fix it for you. Just because you don't have the time to fix it yourself or the money to pay someone to fix it, doesn't mean you are denied this freedom. That Freedom does exist, even if you don't have the means to act on this freedom.
->>> 3. Flexible ---- Could be a workstation, webserver, firewall, router, ->>> ftp server, proxy server, email server, file server, backup server, and ->>> more right out of the box.
->>> 4. Scalable ---- True 32 bit preemptive multitasking, multi-user. - ->>> can run in multi-processor machines. Clustering capability.
Scalable within limits... Linux's scheduler and thread model are pretty immature.
I don't know much about the scheuler or thread model so I won't comment on that. But you have to admit going from a wrist watch (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-2456857.html?tag=st.ne.1002.lthd.1006- 200-2456857, http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000807/tc/tech_ibm_dc_1.html) all the way up to a world's fastest Linux cluster (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,35113,00.html) is pretty dam impressive in it's own right. It is not prefect on the high end stuff, but there is projects http://linux-ha.org/, http://www.beowulf.org/ ) working towards this.
->>> 5. Streamlined ---- Can use Linux in older systems without major ->>> performance problems. Can use in embedded applications.
Depends on your applications.
True, anyone can write a bloated app for any OS, but here I think he is referencing the base system or just the kernel. For example, I run a router off a 486 with 20 megs of ram, and it is really smooth. I would consider that stream lined. Try running Windows NT or Solaris (doesn't Solaris require a pentium?) to do routing/firewalling on a 486 with 20 megs and no swap? It is a small system if you configure it that way. Or you can make it a bloated system by installing Star Office, Netscsape and anyother 10+ meg GUI programs that tries to do everything. IMHO Linux can be streamlined (http://www.linuxsupportline.com/~router/)
->>> 6. Secure ---- A properly updated system is very secure. Linux does not ->>> consider allowing external inputs of unknown origin.
Is this one a joke? If you want secure, look at OpenBSD!
OpenBSD is secure, alot more secure than Linux (or about any other OS on this planet), but OpenBSD doesn't have as much user support or programs avaiable for it. Try getting a web cam working in OpenBSD. (I am not bashing OpenBSD, I use it and really like it) Linux can be secure if you pick a "security minded" distro (http://www.trustix.net/) and make sure you lock it down, update it and maintain it to be secure. Any admin can make any decent OS secure or insecure. Why not lock down your Linux box after install, before you even bring it on line?
->>> 7. Bug Detection ---- With Linux, claims of software fixes are ->>> *independantly verifiable*. many people are looking at code allowing ->>> for faster fixes.
Yeah right... it depends on the fix and how easy it is to identify and incorporate.
I don't have any proof of this, but I am willing to bet Linux turns over more bugs than any other or most other OS avaiable. Most of the time all you have to do to identify a bug is `program --version`, go to the programs home page and read, if it says "version 8.01.42 has a bug in the blah module, please upgrade", that is pretty easy to identify. Most distro's also list on there web pages known bugs and also have a mailing list to alert you if any new bugs are detected. How hard is this? 5-10-15 minutes a day? Incorporating the bug fixes can be someone difficult at times, especailly on a produtive server, but all OS are like this. Upgrading to a new version of Sendmail on Linux or upgrading to a newer version of Exchange on WinNT are both not the easiest things to do, and both require about the same amount of downtime for your users. Source code patches are a bitch, but if you got a decent distrubation they will release an updated version in there native format, which can be as easy as "rpm -U bugfix_for_program.rpm". I don't see Linux harder to update then any other systems out there.
->>> 8. Corporate Backing ---- Increasing numbers of public companies are ->>> supporting and develop Linux services and products.
Corporate backing is one thing, but getting actual development cycles to get things fixed is a complete waste of time.
Have an specific examples?
->>> 9. Roaming Users Easy to implement ---- No cumbersome policy ->>> replication.
->>> 10. New functionality ---- Programming may cost someone time or money, ->>> but is then included in the 'collective' source code, for all to ->>> benefit. The original programmer does not have to recode functinality ->>> into new releases. ->>> ->>> ->>> I took the virus references out... as they are too vague ->>> They all still need to be condensed and become more precise, this still ->>> needs serious work and/or needs to be re-arranged. ->>> ->>> Thanks to all of the responses last time (my apologies if I missed you ->>> :): ->>> ->>> Arjen Runsink
->>> Alain Didierjean ->>> Weiqi Gao ->>> Roland Krause ->>> Jonathan Drews ->>> Mike808 ->>> Gary ->>> "James Harr" ->>> ->>> ->>> ->>> -- ->>> Tony Zafiropoulos ->>> CTiTEK, Inc. ->>> Ph: 314-726-5080 x101 ->>> Fax: 314-726-5085 ->>> Cel: 314-504-3974 ->>> tonyz@ctitek.com ->>> www.ctitek.com ->>> "Many ideas grow better when transplanted into ->>> another mind than in the one where they sprung up." ->>> ---Oliver Wendell Holmes ->>> ->>> ->> ->>Good list. One thing that makes linux killer (maybe not in the top ten ->>though) is cost. ->> ->>Try legally installing 100 Linux workstations then installing 100 Windows NT ->>workstation, with a C and C++ compiler for each workstation. ->> ->>What does this cost you? ->> ->>Linux: ->>$4 for one CD from cheapbytes.com _OR_ free if you have a fast internet ->>connection and/or time ->> ->>Other: ->>price_of(Windows NT workstation License) * 100 ->>price_of(Microsoft Visual C++ License) * 100 ->> ->>This is just "cost of software" not "cost of software and support contract". ->>I am not sure what support contract cost for either Linux or Windows. ->> ->>Jack ->> ->> ->> ->> ->>-- ->>To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->>For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->>Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq ->> -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq
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