Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (2425 mails)
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RE: [SLE] Ad Blocking (was Alternative Web Browser)
- From: joshaugh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Jamie O'Shaughnessy)
- Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:17:41 +0100 (BST)
- Message-id: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0006141049110.8135-100000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
The whole point of this is pretty simple. People dislike ads on their
computer in varying tolerances, from "I love ads and find them useful" to
"I want to kill anyone who puts an ad on my screen". Most people fit
somewhere between those extremes :)
Just as people have varying tolerances to ads, people also have varying
means to dealing with them. Some continue to use the
"application/service" but choose to ignore the ads, some refuse to use the
"application/service" and others choose to use ads blockers or hack the
ads out. I'm sure people have other ways of dealing with it.
Obviously, the degree to which ads annoy someone determines how they deal
with those ads. My point is that I defend the rights for people to choose
their own way of dealing with ads.
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
> > I seem to recall you originally said "application", but if you said
> > "program" then it makes little difference. Without being pedantic about
> > exact meanings of words, the concept that you differentiate between doing
> > "something" on a computer that is running locally as opposed to something
> > running on the network is interesting. What if the program is running on
> > another computer but is being displayed (via X) on the machine on your
> > desk? How does this differ to running the program locally?
> I should be more specific. Here is what I'm using as definitions for my
> -Application: Local or Networked full fledged program with access to
> everything in your system.
> -Applet/Web site: Networked program/page that in theory shouldn't have
> full access.
I fail to see the relevance of "access to the system" here.
> > Seriously, on this point I'm not wanting to get into a stupid flame war,
> > just think about it. It makes no difference where something is running. It
> > also makes no difference how the "application" runs, be it a local
> > program, remote X program, java program started via a web page, java
> > program embedded in a web page or just even a HTML based app.
> I personal think this all depends. And as I say, I have nothing against
> the exisitence of adware - I just wouldn't use it. Just like how I expect
> people who don't like sites with ads to not use those sites rather than find
> loop holes.
But my point here is to show you the inconsistencies in your approach -
you hate ads in "programs that run on your computer and have full access
to the system" yet you happily promote ads in "networked based
applications that don't have full access to the system". Once you break
down the (non-existent) barrier between local and network apps you will
see that your arguments are contradictory - you promote what you hate and
want people to put up with it or not use it.
> > > shut down. You could say good bye to Matt's Script Archive &
> > > CGI-Resources.com, Stepweb.com, Selena Sol/Extropia, and many others
> > I'm sure these sites offer fine services. I don't actually propose
> > anything. What I expect to happen is the market for web advertising will
> > sort itself out anyway - and I wouldn't bet my commercial interests on
> > things staying how they are. If web ads become obtrusive then more people
> > will turn to ad blockers which will cause less web ads, pretty
> > simple. You're right, this could cause some sites to stop functioning. I'm
> > not saying this is a good thing. Hopefully web ads won't become too
> > intrusive and so this won't happen.
> Mine sure won't, and neither will most web sites. I surely hope that the
> ones that do don't ruin it for all.
Which is all fine and dandy, we agree here.
> > As I said before, I'm not advocating an ad free web, I just believe people
> > should be allowed to run ad blockers. If you want to try to block ad
> > blockers (!) in some way, you're free to do that too.
> Isn't it funny that the webmaster gets to worry about other people's
> problems? Because some people don't want to see ads, I have to figure out
> how to avoid that ruining it for myself and everyone else.
I'm afraid that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Let's face it, there
are much worse things you have to do - like make sure your site is secure
from being hacked - the people who do this are mostly doing it illegally,
in a perfect world you wouldn't have to worry about it.
> > If you think the open source movement is driven by money made from web
> > adverts, then I would disagree with you. There are a great many other ways
> > to be a professional open source developer, web ads is just one - and one
> > I think is probably the least successful.
> I don't think it is driven by it, although many parts of it are. And if
> you ask me, isn't it better than having that software move to the dreaded
I wasn't saying it was. I was saying open source developments, in the vast
majority of cases, are not funded by web ads.
> > As to the paying for software, where do you think the money comes from
> > that you get from the ads? When a washing powder commercial is on TV, who
> > do you think pays for that? Directly or indirectly the consumer ends up
> > paying. The real people who make money in your case are the ad companies.
> True, true. Well, actually, I make more than the ad company because I have
> an exculivity contract, but yes - the consumer does pay. Isn't that true
Ah, but they're making money from your hard work by just sitting on their
> with everything though? No matter what, there are only a few things that
> don't come with something that could be called a "price."
Exactly, you were originally claiming that using your site was free from
Jamie O'Shaughnessy e-mail: joshaugh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Oracle Interactive Television Division phone : +44 118 92 45052
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