Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-wiki (177 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-wiki] Redundant namespaces, in particular openSUSE: and also article Kernel
  • From: "Rajko M." <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 22:09:40 -0500
  • Message-id: <201008042209.40395.rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On Wednesday 04 August 2010 11:22:36 Brandon Philips wrote:
On 21:52 Tue 03 Aug 2010, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 03 August 2010 12:29:45 Brandon Philips wrote: ...
...
Does using a Portal template require appending a Portal: namespace? What
advantage does that bring? Can't you just search by all pages using the
template just as easily?

Template is help to create article and, unless it contains custom search
(InputBox) then it has nothing to do with searching help. It is simple text
that you can include from drop down menu. Menu is available when you are
creating new page. It doesn't show up during edit of existing page.

...
I agree alot of pages on the Wiki were a mess, yes, but others like the
Kernel pages were fine.

There was much more about kernel then Kernel page, and that was never reviewed
by someone in kernel team, and they all weren't in a good shape.
http://old-en.opensuse.org/Special:Search?search=kernel

...
Ok, at this point I don't need new lego pieces on the Kernel page. I
will wait until I see how other Portals get assembled before converting
to a Portal layout.
...
I have never seen a Portal: Wikipedia article. Do you have an example?

Pistzienfresser got some :)

...
Lets agree that the openSUSE namespace should not have development pages
like the Kernel explanation. :)

Agreed. Now how to name the namespace for documentation? :)
Whole wiki is documentation. Calling some part DOC: will not help much, we got
that confusion before.

DEVELOPMENT: is better, but there is not much content for that.
Or, maybe there is, but I don't see that?

Any other ideas?

SDB is a poor name for things like the Kernel git article because it has
nothing to do with support.

Agree to some extent.
We should probably look around what naming is used elsewhere.

The wiki and all service on opensuse.org are for all openSUSE people
including users, support people, marketers, developers and so on.

Creating namespaces that try to divide up these often very fuzzy lines
is difficult and can create a ping-pong effect for some information that
sits on the fuzzy line.

The answer on, is it worth to put some effort in that, depends on how many
articles are of that kind.

Don't forget that you can also tag your articles as another way to sort them.
That tags are in a wiki parlance categories. That is another way to group
articles that can be in any namespace. http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Category

BTW, http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Tag talks about different type of tags.

...
It wasn't. :( Please announce major changes on announce in the future.

I'm not sure about announce list, but there was few times repeated call for
participants on any place that came to our mind.

...
And not many will ever see that README.

That isn't true. The Kernel page URL is pasted into emails and bugs
several times a day. The people that need this information aren't
discovering the page on their own and are following a link I and other
Kernel team members provide.

That is good, but it should be better to have it served as part of
troubleshooting documentation, so that people can help themselves too.

Obviously, I want it to be housed on the Wiki as that brings some
advantages.

Sure, central place, that is easy to edit and every change is available
instantly.

Now when it is public everybody and his mother find better ways, but
it is kind of late.

It is never too late to fix something. Lets not be self-defeating.

It is not too late, but there is only certain amount of pain that you can
inflict before people start running away. We can't do that again right now.

Is there a mediawiki special page that shows all incoming internal
links to a page? Maybe a plugin could be written/installed to warn
on page moves if there are existing internal links so that the mover
puts up a REDIRECT.

Page move does put redirect automatically. Problem is that using old
titles as redirects should be minimized otherwise we will have very
soon all nice separation of content bypassed and search will give same
useless results as it did in the old wiki.

But the user deleting the REDIRECT should have a warning of what he will
break... this mistake seems very common on the new wiki.

It is not common, there are redirects that can be deleted and those that
can't, or better should not. We need some education on that too.

Kernel is a good page, but too long for web readers (casual readers).

What? A webpage that is _too_ long? The user has full control over the
scroll bar. I have never complained about a Wikipedia page that provides
me with too much information. I skim, read the bits I need, and ignore
the rest.

That is OK if you don't present something to people that may or may not be
interested. When you want to wake up interest then lesser is more, but, to
write lesser that will attract visitors attention is what people do for
living, and takes skills.

It is good for casual readers up to "openSUSE Kernel of the Day".
After that is too technical for them and kind of short as introduction
to hacking.

... Our goal should not be to design a
safety bubble for users on the wiki. Warning them of dangers is
reasonable.

Warning is good, but any safety measure that doesn't stand in a way of power
users is additional benefit. Separate article for power users is benefit for
both, new user and power user. First has safety bubble and second don't have
to scroll trough basics to read his geek stuff. We can also have quite
technical articles that will explain more details of openSUSE way to handle
kernel.

... Copy'n'paste is one of the first actions that people
learn, far before they know how to undo kernel that doesn't boot.

Good point, I will add a warning to those instructions.

But, if KOTD doesn't boot I want to hear about it! The KOTD today is the
openSUSE Kernel of the future.

Then some article how to handle KOTD would be benefit for users and
developers. You will have much more feedback if people will not be afraid to
use KOTD. Now that is considered geek stuff, while it actually is not that
difficult. One thing that should be done, is to make KOTD alternative, that
one can boot only if one selects it. Then online helpers will not have problem
to recommend it.

PS.
It could be actually that way, but I used KOTD only once or twice.

Brandon

--
Regards,
Rajko
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