Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-wiki (137 mails)

["Rajko M." <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sunday 18 October 2009 16:16:24 John E. Perry wrote:
> Rajko M. wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > Welcome to mail list dedicated to communication about openSUSE wiki.
> > For the rest see below.
> > ...
> >
> > There is no special scripting language, it is markup language used in
> > source text of wiki articles, ...
> >
> > It is another story why MediaWiki authors created set of tags that differ
> > from standard html.
>
> Well, looking over the MediaWiki history page, I see it simplifies a lot
> more than just the short list you gave; so even though I usually dislike
>  duplication of resources at whim, (such as the proliferation of
> object-oriented scripting languages), I can see benefit in much of
> MediaWiki.  Like you, I disdain the silly duplication of (x)html tags.
>
> > > Speaking of which, I subscribed because I'd like to participate.  How do
> > > I go about getting involved? Not being knowledgeable in either linux or
> > > suse's variations on linux, I doubt that I could contribute much in the
> > > technical areas, but I could help out in regularizing the pages'
> > > layouts, style, and so forth.
> >
> > We need someone with experience in above mentioned, as that is important
> > part of overall wiki appearance and user experience.
>
> You've inferred more than I tried to imply :-).  I have experience
> _using_, not _creating_, templates.  I'm looking at it, and I'll give it
> a shot, but...
>
> Indeed, I see that there's already some kind of framework for creating
> wiki pages, since all the pages I've seen have the same title graphic
> and the same menu on the left.  These do not appear to be frames, since
> they move with the content when I scroll.  This I would have considered
> the minimum for a template, and seems to be already in place.

The top of the page right of logo, and left side under the logo are server 
side template that only server admins can change. The same is valid for look 
and feel defined by CSS. 

We can make changes to the rest of the page. I'll call that user editable 
area, and that area is what I refer to when talking about editing. 

Having example article for certain topic that author can copy and edit to 
suite his needs will help to have consistent look and feel in that user 
editable area. 

Wiki editors will benefit by having defined default layout when they have to 
fix existing articles, or giving recommendations for improvement. The list of 
benefits doesn't end with that.   

> Looking at several pages, I see missing some things such as a Table of
> Contents section, even on some really long pages.  

That can happen if there is no sections, or intentionally by including 
__NOTOC__ in a wiki source text. 

> The idea someone
> proposed of subdividing long pages into a set of shorter pages would be
> less attractive if we had a template that provided not only the title
> graphic and the left-hand menu, but also a set of section blocks that
> automatically generates a set of hyperlinks at the top of the page to
> each subheading. 

That I understand as a TOC a Table Of Content, and it is really automatically 
generated when page contains at least 3 section titles. For  instance:
  http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation

> This would promote organized development of a page,
> and help contributors such as oldcpu to think about organization without
> worrying about how to lay out his organized text.  I don't object
> necessarily to division by pages, but frequently, it also makes better
> sense to have all on one page.

The separation on more pages is the one idea that can help separate content by 
user skills. Simple main page with links to advanced parts, related pages that 
explain used words and procedures, troubleshooting etc. 

The other way is use of sections, but that generates very long pages, like:
http://en.opensuse.org/Testing:Features_11.1
That page that should be edited by testers to add test results is so long that 
is hard to navigate without search function, not to mention how it is to edit.

More sample you can see on http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Longpages

...
> The templates would include wiki-standard cross-references,
> wiki-standard further readings and resources, all in wiki-standard
> locations on the page, so that after viewing just a couple of pages,
> users would know where to find everything, and what it looks like, with
> very little need for searching around.

The standard sections cross reference, further reading, resources, external 
links and so on, is something that has to be in example article as reminder to 
author that this kind of information has to be included. I guess Weekly News 
guys have something like that. Please check their dashboard page:
  http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Weekly_News/Dashboard

That is actually general idea of article templates applied on Weekly News. 
Browsing from their main page http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Weekly_News I 
can see more things that can be applied to whole wiki. 

> Be aware that I have no idea yet how to accomplish all this; I'll study
> the problem, but if anyone else has already done or learned this, they
> can do it with my blessing, or point me toward resources for learning
> it.  In fact, I'd like to learn it anyway, so if anyone already knows it
> and can short-cut my learning, I'd be happy to be their helper, and work
> at their direction.

To address above I'll have to take time and collect links that I find useful 
for myself and post that on http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_team .

> John Perry

-- 
Regards, Rajko

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