Greetings list @Raiko_M I'm not continuing it in the forum firstly that is the wrong place. Next you're missing it and taking it personally which is never my intention. Surely you don't expect me to think only a few can post and ruin the structure? You seem to be defending the lack of structure yet only recently in this thread you have been discussing, categories for the nth time. That is the problem the nth time someone needs to be bold, yes I do think SDB's are causing more confusion. Next as you can see you have people who will help they also said they struggle with the structure. Now as I pointed out the comment on the front page stands so true. So having followed the support page I get here http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate OK not really helping. Now personally if I accept a wiki is a wiki that includes all fine then, but then that leaves the question how do others manage it then? So lets use Ubu for an example, by admiring things done we can learn and improve. So as Ubu and Suse start with a similar front page. http://www.ubuntu.com/ http://www.opensuse.org/ now we already are making the presumption that a new user knows the wiki is the place to go. Left hand side Ubu support that looks like it.. Top paragraph sends me here https://help.ubuntu.com/. Now on Suse I can barely find the words help/support and this is also the front page for the wiki, so lets say if we do what gentoo has and just a wiki. http://gentoo-wiki.com/Main_Page perfect looks like howto's would be a good place to start. Brilliant a nice clear TOC of howto's that will assist in keeping structure and help users find stuff. Now say you even end up with the main Ubu wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ first paragraph OK so I'm in the wrong place, first paragraph https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ brilliant a nice TOC no problems finding something. So deciding support wasn't the page I want, http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation as a new user I just want assistance in getting the PC to perform similar functionality to what it did before. http://en.opensuse.org/HOWTOs does this really assist is there structure here then? Where is a nice clear TOC like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ or http://gentoo-wiki.com/Index:HOWTO ? and you wonder why it is getting fragmented, IMO as an outsider looking in I'm not surprised, more surprised that others think that the lack of structure is having an affect. More annoying is I have made these comments before and going on the nth time so has others. What Josh suggested is perfect a nice clear TOC that will assist keeping the structure and help users find bits they want. http://en.opensuse.org/User:Last2kn0 the annoying bit is in less detail I mentioned some of this last year. Next should you take something like the above it needs to be in a CLEAR AND EASY PLACE to find, people need to start thinking like new users. As someone worded it to me they would rather keep there stuff out of the wiki as there not sure whether it would get lost, they couldn't be bothered fighting the turf barriers and forest of agendas. Whilst people think like this contributions will continue in the manner they have. Someone needs to stand up and be counted by being bold and create a front page that incorporates and assists the new user, along the way this will have a cleaner and clearer structure that will assist contributers in placing articles in the correct place. If you wish to persist in having all the superfluous stuff in the wiki for developers like all the libzypp rubbish then you need to take a leaf out of Ubu and separate the help Stuff, but still with out a decent TOC that is quickly found the structure will continue being a mess. Just someone trying to help the community. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org