Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-ux (89 mails)
| < Previous | Next > |
Re: [opensuse-ux] Installer UX Ideas.
- From: Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:12:27 +0200
- Message-id: <464C1C7B.1060809@xxxxxxxxx>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
> Pascal Bleser schrieb:
[...]
>> Most Windows users have a cracked copy of Partition Magic though, so
>> having a GUI where they can drag the partition sizes (without having to
>> jump through hoops to select the partition type, the filesystem type,
>> filesystem options, etc...) should make most of them feel at home (sort of).
>
> I really don't want to present the full-blown partitioner during the
> installation.
> Maybe we should offer a simple GUI (something like partition magic GUI
> or the paragon partitioner GUI) as a fallback for users who don't trust
> the auto-partitioner?
As a long-time Linux user, I definitely _want_ to see the full-blown
partitioner during the installation.
I always set it up with Software RAID1, LVM, several LV partitions for
/, /boot, /usr, /var, /home, etc...
Please don't discard the full-blown partitioner from the installation
for experts ;)
Currently the automatic partitioning proposals are a bit dry IMO.
It would be very nice to have a graphical representation of the proposal
with just very few options to change it (or select "expert mode" to
fiddle with it).
[ ] Use everything (WARNING: will remove any currently installed
operating system from all your hard disks)
[x] Resize Windows partition(s) {Modify}
+-------------------------+ (show a bar graph
|########## **************| for all disks)
|### C: ### ** openSUSE **| ...
|########## **************| (and also show sizes in GiB)
+-------------------------+
[ ] Expert Mode
{Modify} being a button ;)
But note that this part would be quite difficult to render with the
ncurses (text) interface of YaST2.
Needs an alternative representation there.
I think it's important to detect Windows partitions and label them
accordingly (the logic being quite simple to determine what's C:, D:,
...), actually displaying "C:", "D:", etc... - because less experienced
users only understand that. Telling them "disk 1 partition 2" won't let
them know the installer is going to shrink their D: where they've got
all their movies and MP3s ;)
>> IIRC (been a while I did a fresh install) the partitioning comes before
>> the software selection. Maybe the opposite would be more appropriate, as
>> the partitioner would know how much disk space is needed in order to
>> install the packages and/or patterns the user has selected (+ some more
>> space, depending on what can be resized). Not necessarily trivial to
>> determine an algorithm here but well..
>
> Cool idea!
>
>> Furthermore, maybe the package/pattern selection could be skipped
>> altogether in "newbie mode" -- just install KDE, firefox + thunderbird,
>> an IRC client (with a .desktop on the.. Desktop to connect to #suse on
>> irc.freenode.net to get interactive help from the community), and
>> possibly OpenOffice.org (although even that should be skipped once we
>> have a decent and easy to use interface to install stuff).
>
> I am afraid we have to take care of our decision not to preselect any
> desktop.
*g* yeah.. well.. ok.. politics.
The recent survey showed a very significant preference for KDE though.
> Furthermore I don't think, that Newbies will enter an IRC
> channel :-)
I don't agree. Sure, they probably don't know what it is nor how it
works, but they'd just have to click to be in the room, and we will be
there to help them along.
The icon would just have to be labelled "meet the community" or
something (instead of "IRC") but I'm sure it's going to he a big help
when they've got questions or issues.
Anyhow, it has already been proposed to AJ. And he likes the idea ;)
Will probably be in 10.3.
> But it is an interesting concept though and I think we should just
> identify common newbie tasks and install the software needed for these
> tasks.
Just install a basic desktop system. Once we have a better and easier
interface to "add applications", it will be a snap to install
OpenOffice.org and such later on.
A desktop, a browser, an email client, full-blown YaST2, IRC client, IM
client, that's it.
Basically what a beginner would expect from a Windows installation +
some more.
The other advantage being that the installation would be *quick*,
something not to underestimate, even wrt usability.
Obviously, we still need an expert mode here, with full-blown selection
of packages, patterns, etc... (that's already in the installer right now).
>> Present a choice of "installation modes" really soon (possibly right
>> after choosing between "installation"/"upgrade"/"repair"),
>
> I would really like to skip this dialog at all and to replace it with:
> * display update choice only when a previous openSUSE is detected
> * move repair into the boot screen
Yes, agreed, that's a lot better (especially repair on the first screen).
>> with no more
>> than 3 options, explain those options in the selection screen and have
>> different workflows depending on that.
>> [x] Linux newcomer (mmmh.. needs a better denomination)
>> [ ] Intermediate
>> [ ] Expert
>> ?
>> (and explain what configuration operations will be available for each
>> "mode")
>
> We thought about that as well, but we decided to avoid this approach as
> it gives people a hard feeling having to rate themselves (like those
> stupid "... for Dummies" book series) and it might be difficult for the
I know, but maybe choosing a non-discriminating label would already do
the trick ;)
Or maybe just label it "Quick installation".. ?
> user to rate himself. We observed this during our usability tests, that
> people find it difficult to rate themselves even when the rating scale
> is explained in three lines :-)
Hmm.. OK. But... see above. "Quick Installation" and "Expert Mode" ?
>> And installing packages later on is a non-issue on Linux anyway.
>> It's just that openSUSE+SLED need an interface that's easier to use [to
>> install packages].
>
> Fully agreed! I hope that we can start this discussion next week!
What's next week ?
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx> <guru@xxxxxxxxxxx>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFGTBx7r3NMWliFcXcRAswbAKC2YxkHiOQZC2ovEemgaLAFhPcYpQCePHTN
xd/NeGlD54+OFgEmrA9blwY=
=pKUT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Hash: SHA1
Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
> Pascal Bleser schrieb:
[...]
>> Most Windows users have a cracked copy of Partition Magic though, so
>> having a GUI where they can drag the partition sizes (without having to
>> jump through hoops to select the partition type, the filesystem type,
>> filesystem options, etc...) should make most of them feel at home (sort of).
>
> I really don't want to present the full-blown partitioner during the
> installation.
> Maybe we should offer a simple GUI (something like partition magic GUI
> or the paragon partitioner GUI) as a fallback for users who don't trust
> the auto-partitioner?
As a long-time Linux user, I definitely _want_ to see the full-blown
partitioner during the installation.
I always set it up with Software RAID1, LVM, several LV partitions for
/, /boot, /usr, /var, /home, etc...
Please don't discard the full-blown partitioner from the installation
for experts ;)
Currently the automatic partitioning proposals are a bit dry IMO.
It would be very nice to have a graphical representation of the proposal
with just very few options to change it (or select "expert mode" to
fiddle with it).
[ ] Use everything (WARNING: will remove any currently installed
operating system from all your hard disks)
[x] Resize Windows partition(s) {Modify}
+-------------------------+ (show a bar graph
|########## **************| for all disks)
|### C: ### ** openSUSE **| ...
|########## **************| (and also show sizes in GiB)
+-------------------------+
[ ] Expert Mode
{Modify} being a button ;)
But note that this part would be quite difficult to render with the
ncurses (text) interface of YaST2.
Needs an alternative representation there.
I think it's important to detect Windows partitions and label them
accordingly (the logic being quite simple to determine what's C:, D:,
...), actually displaying "C:", "D:", etc... - because less experienced
users only understand that. Telling them "disk 1 partition 2" won't let
them know the installer is going to shrink their D: where they've got
all their movies and MP3s ;)
>> IIRC (been a while I did a fresh install) the partitioning comes before
>> the software selection. Maybe the opposite would be more appropriate, as
>> the partitioner would know how much disk space is needed in order to
>> install the packages and/or patterns the user has selected (+ some more
>> space, depending on what can be resized). Not necessarily trivial to
>> determine an algorithm here but well..
>
> Cool idea!
>
>> Furthermore, maybe the package/pattern selection could be skipped
>> altogether in "newbie mode" -- just install KDE, firefox + thunderbird,
>> an IRC client (with a .desktop on the.. Desktop to connect to #suse on
>> irc.freenode.net to get interactive help from the community), and
>> possibly OpenOffice.org (although even that should be skipped once we
>> have a decent and easy to use interface to install stuff).
>
> I am afraid we have to take care of our decision not to preselect any
> desktop.
*g* yeah.. well.. ok.. politics.
The recent survey showed a very significant preference for KDE though.
> Furthermore I don't think, that Newbies will enter an IRC
> channel :-)
I don't agree. Sure, they probably don't know what it is nor how it
works, but they'd just have to click to be in the room, and we will be
there to help them along.
The icon would just have to be labelled "meet the community" or
something (instead of "IRC") but I'm sure it's going to he a big help
when they've got questions or issues.
Anyhow, it has already been proposed to AJ. And he likes the idea ;)
Will probably be in 10.3.
> But it is an interesting concept though and I think we should just
> identify common newbie tasks and install the software needed for these
> tasks.
Just install a basic desktop system. Once we have a better and easier
interface to "add applications", it will be a snap to install
OpenOffice.org and such later on.
A desktop, a browser, an email client, full-blown YaST2, IRC client, IM
client, that's it.
Basically what a beginner would expect from a Windows installation +
some more.
The other advantage being that the installation would be *quick*,
something not to underestimate, even wrt usability.
Obviously, we still need an expert mode here, with full-blown selection
of packages, patterns, etc... (that's already in the installer right now).
>> Present a choice of "installation modes" really soon (possibly right
>> after choosing between "installation"/"upgrade"/"repair"),
>
> I would really like to skip this dialog at all and to replace it with:
> * display update choice only when a previous openSUSE is detected
> * move repair into the boot screen
Yes, agreed, that's a lot better (especially repair on the first screen).
>> with no more
>> than 3 options, explain those options in the selection screen and have
>> different workflows depending on that.
>> [x] Linux newcomer (mmmh.. needs a better denomination)
>> [ ] Intermediate
>> [ ] Expert
>> ?
>> (and explain what configuration operations will be available for each
>> "mode")
>
> We thought about that as well, but we decided to avoid this approach as
> it gives people a hard feeling having to rate themselves (like those
> stupid "... for Dummies" book series) and it might be difficult for the
I know, but maybe choosing a non-discriminating label would already do
the trick ;)
Or maybe just label it "Quick installation".. ?
> user to rate himself. We observed this during our usability tests, that
> people find it difficult to rate themselves even when the rating scale
> is explained in three lines :-)
Hmm.. OK. But... see above. "Quick Installation" and "Expert Mode" ?
>> And installing packages later on is a non-issue on Linux anyway.
>> It's just that openSUSE+SLED need an interface that's easier to use [to
>> install packages].
>
> Fully agreed! I hope that we can start this discussion next week!
What's next week ?
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx> <guru@xxxxxxxxxxx>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFGTBx7r3NMWliFcXcRAswbAKC2YxkHiOQZC2ovEemgaLAFhPcYpQCePHTN
xd/NeGlD54+OFgEmrA9blwY=
=pKUT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
| < Previous | Next > |