On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa
The main goal of this mail is to present another idea that was already discussed during the recent openSUSE Summit: the Karmafication of the openSUSE infrastructure. People there liked the idea and some related topics have already been raised in the last days on both Factory and Project mailing lists, so we bring the idea here for wider debate and especially to get input from you all.
Where can Karmafication be useful? [...]
Hi Ancor. It is a pity that it doesn't built on the thoughts that have already been made on that (or a similar) approach, but that's okay, let's think and talk. Where will Karmafication fail: * as mentioned a few times already, e.g. by Robert, unless you have a really, really fair, smart and somewhat automated way of assigning karma points to actions, there is really no point in going any further with this, because that is going to be the crux of it; contributions to the project come in many different forms, and I personally do not believe there is a fair way to account for such points, so what it is going to create is: - division through a feeling of unjust treatment (why do packagers get 10 points while translators only get 1 ? oh! so openSUSE is JUST SO DEVELOPER CENTRIC, we don't feel welcome here!!! -- think that won't happen? check the archives) - people who are going to game the system because they're only in for (apparent) reputation (we have had and still have a few of those, and while I won't name any names, some of us know exactly who I'm talking about) * one of the key aspects of this project is really the fact that anyone can contribute anything; of course there is quality control, of course people should be taken by the hand to improve their contributions, in a humanly positive manner, in a way that will keep their motivation intact (that's mentoring, and Karmafication doesn't address that -- and yes, we're not very good at mentoring, we know that); bringing a score based system is going to turn that around completely, because soon you'll be introducing - barriers (people need a certain score to be allowed to do this and that -- horrible, that would make us end up like Fedora in that regard, and NO, we don't want that) - people gaming the system, and you'll need to introduce safeguards against that... - apparent levels of "semi-gods" which will create fanboys, wrong impressions (oh, but the person who said that has karma level 99999 in openSUSE, so it must be representative of the whole project! -- think it won't happen? happens already, since a long time), and it will also create fear (who am I to talk to that person, I'm not worthy) and intimidation -- not willingly, mind you, but it will -- actually it exists already, but that will make it even worse * bureaucracy: you do mention that it would be a simple system without bureaucracy, but it will not be simple because you'll need to address the points above (and a lot more that will creep up and neither you nor anyone else has thought of at this point) We already have some experience with similar approaches, such as the Membership status, which was *never* intended as an "elite label", but it has quickly been seen and misinterpreted as such by a significant part of the community. There, too, we have always had issues "scoring" contributions to decide whether it amounts to enough to get membership status or not. Karmafication would be even worse, because it would be an actual number. Based on what?
1. Decision making. As you all know, most final decisions on the technical side rests in Coolo's shoulders. He plays the role of a benevolent dictator, working based on his perception of skills and dedication. Sure he is fair and experienced but still a single human being.
How is karma points going to help with that? Sorry, I really don't see the relation there. People with high karma would feel entitled to "be coolo-alike", have "coolo level" in the project? That's sick.
2. Guidance We lack a clear path from newbie to contributor and then to experienced contributor (like maintainer, reviewer etc). Also, we have a wide variety of guidelines which we'd like people to follow better but which aren't hard rules.
Yes, indeed, that's mentoring. And, also, I don't see how karma points will help with that. It still won't help with the fact that we don't have enough busy contributors who take time to do mentorship, that we don't have an active advocacy of the ways to be mentored in the project, nor "marketing" around it (because we don't have an established, clear, active mentorship program to begin with).
3. Motivation There are areas in openSUSE that do not get the love and attention they deserve in both technical and non-technical terms. People who work on them should be recognized and rewarded.
So that's the idea of open source projects? Rewards? Reputation? Elite? Guys..... really.... ?
How does Karmafication support the factory proposal goals in the above areas? [...]
I'll better refrain from commenting on those. Sorry, but it's really naive and doesn't show much experience with how this stuff actually turns out to work in practice... I do realize how abrasive my comments are but c'mon guys, we can do better than this (maybe by brainstorming with a larger group of people). [...]
What do you think about the whole idea?
Worst idea I've heard in a long time, honestly.
Would you like openSUSE to be the first distribution with a karma-driven development process?
Absolutely not. It pretty much goes against everything this project and community stands for. cheers, Pascal. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org