Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (186 mails)
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Re: [opensuse-project] My questions for the board candidates
- From: Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 21:51:26 +0100
- Message-id: <20111203205126.GB5850@hera>
On 2011-12-02 14:34:46 (+0100), Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[...]
I know what the board is doing, as I've been there for two terms
already. Does my answer on that count too, then ? :)
* bring my experience with
* being active in this community,
* the people I know and the things I've done (and hence
knowing my way through the maze),
* and the trust many people in the community have in me.
* my qualities in terms of
* being not too bad at working on compromises (I'm belgian
after all, and don't bring up the government topic, we can
have that discussion around a beer ;)),
* finding common sense solutions (I'm a software engineer) --
what you like to call "just do it", although I prefer a more
verbose version of it (I'm a latin :)),
* and interacting with people.
I'm far from being perfect, mind you, and I surely don't want to
make it sound like I believe I am, but I think that those are
indeed a few things I can bring to the table :)
Wow, where do we start ?
Sorry, I won't give you either a short text or a structured list
:)
It is pretty much layered like an onion, which is a bit
unfortunate, but probably impossible to avoid. At the core, it's
mostly "developers" (in the broad sense), many of them being
SUSE employees. I don't say that in a negative way, but it's
simply because several core positions and some of the largest
amounts of work that are contributed to the project come from
people who are on the payroll of SUSE. Because they have been
there since a very long time, because they're very good at what
they do, and/or because having daytime to contribute to it also
gives more possibilities.
But it's not only people from SUSE, and I consider myself as
also being part of that "core of the onion", amongst many
others.
Then there are many groups of people (who are actual groups
because they're organized in teams, or because they work on the
same domain, etc...) who have a varying connection to the people
at the core. And with varying I rather mean to say insufficient.
It's not a criticism towards them as much as it is an
observation, and rather something "we", at the core, need to
improve a lot. Examples being the marketing team, the artwork
team, the forums moderators, etc... They certainly don't have
the visibility and influence they deserve, let's hope we can
improve that over time.
And then, on the outer rims of the onion, there are people who'd
like to contribute but don't know how, or whom to get in touch
with. There are users (in the sense of "using but not
contributing"), too.
I won't give you an org-chart (is that a trick question ? :)),
because there is no org-chart in openSUSE. As said, there are
certainly "key positions" (Coolo and the release team, Adrian
and Michael for the OBS, Jos as he manages the budget, you
because you have always been the soul of openSUSE at SUSE, the
forum admins, darix because he's so available and helpful as
well as because he has his fingers in so many things, etc etc,
ETOOMANYTOLIST, ...), but those are held through merit and
skills.
But nothing prevents anyone from stepping up, diving deep into a
topic, contribute, and then end up being in charge of something
(need to bring a few skills along, of course, at least for being
in charge :)).
I truly believe that is the case by now, even though there are
other issues because of which it isn't that simple:
* developers/packagers having more visibility and interest then
people on the marketing team, for example,
* very few women in the community which might put some
additional barriers for them, and that may apply to other
minorities too,
* bikeshedding and a few trolls on the mailing-lists that make
it very difficult to discuss topics with a broader audience,
etc...
I hope that answers your question, at least a bit :)
It's not too bad, I think, especially now that SUSE has become a
more cohesive unit again (and all contacts with Michael Miller
have been great, honest and productive so far). Other sponsors
(such as B1) are not very visible in the project though, in the
sense that they are contributing their share through funding and
work force, but not so much "as B1" -- which can be good or bad.
Another sponsor has proven to be a lot more difficult to deal
with, but I'll leave that discussion for another time, and I
have already been sufficiently vocal on that topic in the recent
past, I think ;)
Generally speaking, I would personally prefer a situation where
we would have more sponsors, or at least a situation where SUSE
isn't the "only big sponsor". Sure, we're dealing with many
people who are doing a great job, and with quite a few of them
who put the project and the community before their job (like
you, for example). At least when you're in that "core of the
onion" and when you get in touch a lot more often and a lot more
closer with people at SUSE, there is a very trustworthy
relationship. People who are more on the outside might be
suspicious that it is the case, which is a pretty natural human
behaviour, apparently, but I can really say that I've never
encountered a situation where SUSE has tried to screw the
community over (well, there was the ZMD incident ... ;)).
But having a more balanced situation and not being at the mercy
of a single company would certainly be beneficial, never mind
how good the relationship with that company is. It would
especially be better to the outside because, frankly, only few
people (percentage wise) have the chance of being in the "core
of the onion" and see first hand how good the relationship is.
So what do we get from our sponsors? First of all, a lot of
people who work on the project, or at least on its "technical"
aspects. Sure, most of them also work on SLE, and there is a lot
of synergy between openSUSE and SLE, obviously, but still.
We get funding too, such as for the conference, for shipping
material to volunteers who promote the project at conferences,
at LUGs, etc...
We get 99% of the technical infrastructure (hosting, the OBS
build grid on build.opensuse.org, etc...).
We also get support from the legal team at SUSE, specifically on
the trademarks (but then again, the trademarks are owned by SUSE
(or is it still Novell?), and it is their duty to enforce them,
but they kindly delegate the decision to the openSUSE board).
What do the sponsors get ?
Many hundreds of people who contribute to the same codebase and
project than they do, or which they make their revenue from
(through selling, supporting, consultancy, etc...). Be it on a
technical basis (packaging, testing, integrating, developing
software, ...), less technical but not less important aspects
(translating, marketing, artwork, promoting, ...), and obviously
also in terms of support (forums, mailing lists, IRC, ...).
I'm convinced that if we had to translate the amount of work
from people who contribute to the project and who are not paid
by one of the sponsors for doing so into money, it would end up
in an amount that is orders of magnitude higher than what the
sponsors are investing.
cheers
--
-o) Pascal Bleser
/\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green
_\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
[...]
1. What do you think the board is really doing? We all know the boards
duties and goals as stated in the guiding principles but what do
the board members do to fulfill and reach those? Please name as many
tasks as you can and what they involve specifically.
I know what the board is doing, as I've been there for two terms
already. Does my answer on that count too, then ? :)
2. What do you think is the most important thing that you personally as
a Board member have to do? I'm not so much interested in goals you
want to reach in the future but more in what you think is the most
important part in your "job description".
* bring my experience with
* being active in this community,
* the people I know and the things I've done (and hence
knowing my way through the maze),
* and the trust many people in the community have in me.
* my qualities in terms of
* being not too bad at working on compromises (I'm belgian
after all, and don't bring up the government topic, we can
have that discussion around a beer ;)),
* finding common sense solutions (I'm a software engineer) --
what you like to call "just do it", although I prefer a more
verbose version of it (I'm a latin :)),
* and interacting with people.
I'm far from being perfect, mind you, and I surely don't want to
make it sound like I believe I am, but I think that those are
indeed a few things I can bring to the table :)
3. Please describe your view of openSUSE as a project. Which
people/groups/functions are there and how do they work together? I'm
looking for a structured list, a short text or an org-chart :)
Wow, where do we start ?
Sorry, I won't give you either a short text or a structured list
:)
It is pretty much layered like an onion, which is a bit
unfortunate, but probably impossible to avoid. At the core, it's
mostly "developers" (in the broad sense), many of them being
SUSE employees. I don't say that in a negative way, but it's
simply because several core positions and some of the largest
amounts of work that are contributed to the project come from
people who are on the payroll of SUSE. Because they have been
there since a very long time, because they're very good at what
they do, and/or because having daytime to contribute to it also
gives more possibilities.
But it's not only people from SUSE, and I consider myself as
also being part of that "core of the onion", amongst many
others.
Then there are many groups of people (who are actual groups
because they're organized in teams, or because they work on the
same domain, etc...) who have a varying connection to the people
at the core. And with varying I rather mean to say insufficient.
It's not a criticism towards them as much as it is an
observation, and rather something "we", at the core, need to
improve a lot. Examples being the marketing team, the artwork
team, the forums moderators, etc... They certainly don't have
the visibility and influence they deserve, let's hope we can
improve that over time.
And then, on the outer rims of the onion, there are people who'd
like to contribute but don't know how, or whom to get in touch
with. There are users (in the sense of "using but not
contributing"), too.
I won't give you an org-chart (is that a trick question ? :)),
because there is no org-chart in openSUSE. As said, there are
certainly "key positions" (Coolo and the release team, Adrian
and Michael for the OBS, Jos as he manages the budget, you
because you have always been the soul of openSUSE at SUSE, the
forum admins, darix because he's so available and helpful as
well as because he has his fingers in so many things, etc etc,
ETOOMANYTOLIST, ...), but those are held through merit and
skills.
But nothing prevents anyone from stepping up, diving deep into a
topic, contribute, and then end up being in charge of something
(need to bring a few skills along, of course, at least for being
in charge :)).
I truly believe that is the case by now, even though there are
other issues because of which it isn't that simple:
* developers/packagers having more visibility and interest then
people on the marketing team, for example,
* very few women in the community which might put some
additional barriers for them, and that may apply to other
minorities too,
* bikeshedding and a few trolls on the mailing-lists that make
it very difficult to discuss topics with a broader audience,
etc...
I hope that answers your question, at least a bit :)
4. How would you describe openSUSE's relationship to its sponsors? What
do we get from our sponsors and how? What do the sponsors get from
us and how?
It's not too bad, I think, especially now that SUSE has become a
more cohesive unit again (and all contacts with Michael Miller
have been great, honest and productive so far). Other sponsors
(such as B1) are not very visible in the project though, in the
sense that they are contributing their share through funding and
work force, but not so much "as B1" -- which can be good or bad.
Another sponsor has proven to be a lot more difficult to deal
with, but I'll leave that discussion for another time, and I
have already been sufficiently vocal on that topic in the recent
past, I think ;)
Generally speaking, I would personally prefer a situation where
we would have more sponsors, or at least a situation where SUSE
isn't the "only big sponsor". Sure, we're dealing with many
people who are doing a great job, and with quite a few of them
who put the project and the community before their job (like
you, for example). At least when you're in that "core of the
onion" and when you get in touch a lot more often and a lot more
closer with people at SUSE, there is a very trustworthy
relationship. People who are more on the outside might be
suspicious that it is the case, which is a pretty natural human
behaviour, apparently, but I can really say that I've never
encountered a situation where SUSE has tried to screw the
community over (well, there was the ZMD incident ... ;)).
But having a more balanced situation and not being at the mercy
of a single company would certainly be beneficial, never mind
how good the relationship with that company is. It would
especially be better to the outside because, frankly, only few
people (percentage wise) have the chance of being in the "core
of the onion" and see first hand how good the relationship is.
So what do we get from our sponsors? First of all, a lot of
people who work on the project, or at least on its "technical"
aspects. Sure, most of them also work on SLE, and there is a lot
of synergy between openSUSE and SLE, obviously, but still.
We get funding too, such as for the conference, for shipping
material to volunteers who promote the project at conferences,
at LUGs, etc...
We get 99% of the technical infrastructure (hosting, the OBS
build grid on build.opensuse.org, etc...).
We also get support from the legal team at SUSE, specifically on
the trademarks (but then again, the trademarks are owned by SUSE
(or is it still Novell?), and it is their duty to enforce them,
but they kindly delegate the decision to the openSUSE board).
What do the sponsors get ?
Many hundreds of people who contribute to the same codebase and
project than they do, or which they make their revenue from
(through selling, supporting, consultancy, etc...). Be it on a
technical basis (packaging, testing, integrating, developing
software, ...), less technical but not less important aspects
(translating, marketing, artwork, promoting, ...), and obviously
also in terms of support (forums, mailing lists, IRC, ...).
I'm convinced that if we had to translate the amount of work
from people who contribute to the project and who are not paid
by one of the sponsors for doing so into money, it would end up
in an amount that is orders of magnitude higher than what the
sponsors are investing.
cheers
--
-o) Pascal Bleser
/\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green
_\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
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