Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (202 mails)

[Per Jessen <per@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Greg KH wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:45:01PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
> > Greg KH wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 08:29:17PM +0200, jdd wrote:
> > > > Le 11/06/2011 18:39, Greg KH a écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > It should "just work" so there should not be anything you have to
> > > > > learn about, right?
> > > >
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > I had quite often to edit init scripts for adapt to local
> > > > situations, so I don't see why systemd could be any better in this
> > > > respect (it's not it's fault), so if these scripts are no more
> > > > used I will have to learn new things
> > >
> > > Of course if you need to customize things you will have to adapt,
> > > to think otherwise is crazy.
> > >
> > > But for the majority of people out there, they never have to edit
> > > an
> > > init script.  Heck, I haven't had to touch one myself for many many
> > > years now and I use Linux in all sorts of different situations.
> >
> > From which one can only deduce that you do not use it in real life.
>
> I'm sorry that you feel my life is somehow not "real".

Anyone using openSUSE in a production setup, will most likely have to
fiddle with the init scripts at some point.  openSUSE provides an
excellent starting point, but it does not cater for everything. 
Here is a rough list of scripts I have (over the last ten years) either
written myself or imported+modified from non-SUSE sources: 

stund start, misdn initialization, start iaxmodem, start-scripts for
12-13 other misc daemons, lvs setup script, lvs monitoring, postfix
policy daemons, start multiple postfix instances, misc.
autoreload/monitoring, special routing table setup, hp psp scripts. 

> > > It's as if people here don't trust the developers of the system
> > > that they use to do the right thing.  And that's an attitude that
> > > is not very wise, or useful.
> >
> > Oh, please, get off your high horse.  Not trusting developers is
> > indeed very wise, because developers most often live in ivory towers,
> > blissfully unaware.  I've spent a significant part of the last 25
> > years as a software engineer, I know only too well.
>
> Then why are you participating here if you don't trust us? 

If I trusted you to know what is best for me and openSUSE, I would have
no need to participate here. I participate here exactly because I don't
trust you to know that.  I hope to influence what is going on, and
perhaps even steer things in the right direction. 
I think making systemd the default in 12.1 is too early and not in line
with our strategy, so I point that out. 

> The developers are the ones doing the work, and if you don't trust
> them, well, we have larger issues.

I don't trust the developers to dictate what is best for the user and
the project, no. 


-- 
Per Jessen, Zürich (13.4°C)

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