Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (930 mails)

[Trifle Menot <triflemenot@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 01:47:04 +0200, Stephan Kleine <bitdealer@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> On Wednesday June 9 2010 22:56:55 Trifle Menot wrote:

> > I don't look at Novell as a problem.  I think you are mistaking my
> > arguments for an attack.  I want Novell (and its successor) to grow and
> > thrive.  I want devs to earn nice salaries, so they can support their
> > families while doing work they enjoy.
>
> With all due respect but:
> 1. You said you wont contribute in any way as long as openSUSE "depends" on 
> Novell in any way.

No, I said I want to see independent opensuse project infrastructure,
like bugzilla.  I don't care that paid Novell devs can influence the
project with their opinions and work.  I want Novell to show good faith
by separating the project infrastructure.  I think that's an important
step.


> 2. You are arguing over and over that the patent deal between Novell and "M$" 
> drives others aways.

That's not my focus. You're twisting my words.


> So I guess it is fair to say that you see Novell as a problem.

No, but some people here are too sensitive, and take offense at the
least thing.


> > But the reality is, if you're not growing, you're dying.  You must take
> > risks to compete with market leaders.  If you don't, you will fall so
> > far behind in terms of market share, that you can never catch up.  And
> > that will mean the eventual death of opensuse.
>
> Well, how do you define "market leader"? In an enterprise field clearly Red 
> Hat and Novell _are_ the "market leaders".

Ubuntu and Red Hat look like leaders to me.


> > Fully separating the opensuse infrastructure from the main sponsor is a
> > risk.  But I think it's the best way to attract new opensuse users and
> > grow grassroots support of opensuse.  If it works, the corporate sponsor
> > will reap the rewards of improved public opinion and increasing market
> > share.
>
> Before you raise claims like that please answer some questions:
>
> 1. Who will pay the core devs working on it since the current "community" 
> isn't able to do so?

Novell, or its buyer.


> 2. Who will pay for the basic infrastructure like OBS (since that will be the 
> most costly) so development can go on as it does currently?

Novell, or its buyer.

You are jumping to wrong conclusions about my intent.


> Well, while the number of people assigned to work merely on openSUSE might be 
> ridiculously small compared to the whole number of employees (11 if I'm not 
> mistaken) openSUSE still profits from the others working on SLE (which 
> certainly are quite some more).
>
> Point being, me personally, I contribute to it because I consider it the best 
> KDE distro available and it - now - gives me the tools to contribute by
>
> 1. Trolling IRC a bit.
> 2. Packaging stuff I find missing and updating others I find outdated (yes, I 
> love OBS)
> 3. Testing it since that will be what I have to use.
>
> Also I honestly don't see a reason why other corporations should be driven 
> away from contributing by said "M$" Novell deal. IOW your whole rant against 
> "get independent of Novell" is as ridiculous as if you would visit the Fedora 

Again, you are jumping to wrong conclusions.  I'm talking about opensuse
project infrastructure.  I'm not asking Novell people to go away.


> mailing list and tell them to get independent of Red Hat. It is just a 
> community distro that is the base for a corporate one. You have all the 
> possibilities to enhance it or change its direction _if_ you contribute and 
> have valid arguments but some silly rant while refusing to do anything "cause 
> it is reigned by some evil overlord" is simply ridiculous.
>
> Point being, until
> 1. You can come up with some reasonable idea how to pay core devs to work on 
> it.
> 2. You tell us how to pay for the necessary infrastructure (e.g OBS).
> 3. _You_ start contributing instead of telling others what they should do.
> 4. You enlighten us how the relationship between Fedora and RHEL is different 
> to openSUSE and SLE.
> 5. You provide some _proof_ of someone that got driven away by that "M$" deal 
> - and no, some random joe sitting in his cellar doesn't count but we are 
> talking about "corporate" sponsors who would be willing to invest more than 
> just some 3-5 digits sum.
>
> So, either surprise me or please simply cut it since that thread has run its 
> course quite some time ago.
>
> For sure you had valid arguments about the independence of Novell in case they 
> were sold but that ongoing rant about some evil "M$" plots leads nowhere - or 
> at least makes you look like something you prolly wont want.

I am not ranting about MS/Novell.  Again you are twisting my words.
You're not paying attention to what I say, you're listening to your own
imagination.



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