Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (109 mails)

[Mark V <mvyver@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Bryen M. Yunashko <suserocks@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-03-10 at 11:51 +1100, Mark V wrote:
> > It is important that this Board decision be made public (on this
> > thread?)
> > Ideally the Board's full reasoning should also be given so that people
> > can be fully informed about how the guidelines are interpreted, and
> > then applied.
> >
> > Mark
>
> Mark,
>
> You have my word that whatever decision the Board decides to make will
> be fully public.  We have held open meetings for all of our Board
> meetings for several months now and are always striving to make our
> process more open to the community.
>
> You are welcome to attend one of our meetings which is held every two
> weeks in the #opensuse-project IRC channel.  Our next meeting will be
> tomorrow at 19:00 UTC.
>
> The full threads of this issue has been forwarded to the Board and we
> will review it as quickly as possible.  I cannot guarantee that it will
> be on tomorrow's topic as I personally want to make sure that every
> Board member has had an opportunity to read through the full thread
> before issuing an opinion on this matter.  But it will be done in the
> very near future, for sure.
>
> As two of our board members will not be present at tomorrow's meeting, I
> would personally prefer we not issue such an important decision at
> tomorrow's meeting.
>
> In the spirit of openness, I will state that my preliminary (and I
> emphasize "preliminary") is that such a statement is reprehensible.  It
> is something that I would never utter, and it is something that I agree
> has no place in a forum such as ours.

The signature statement referred to is controversial, inflamatory and
makes some feel uncomfortable.
I don't know enough about the religion to know if it is accurate or
defensible - it sounds like it is not from the indignation everyone is
expressing. So let's assume that it is inaccurate.
 - We have one person who has complained, and who has indicated the
consensus of another maillist was that he is overreacting.
 - From this thread it sounds like the complainer hasn't approached
the poster to ask them to desist. Correct ?
 - If the poster has been approached, asking them to stop using the
tagline/signature, have they refused, /and/ continued to use the
signature at issue?

> I have personally experienced
> persecution at the hands of another religion in my childhood years and
> therefore it is very personal to me when I see someone attacking a
> relgion, whether it is my religion or someone else's religion.

Hmm, what you propose is effectively vigilante justice - 'I am a
vicitm therefore I have special status to judge'. For the record -
nonsense.
If anything, in most administration/due-process systems you'd now be
expected to excuse yourself from the decison making - no?
Of course you'd make an excellent statement to the list, for the
board's consumption, about why this isn't just free expression to be
tolerated even if it is offensive.
Maybe you help establish the statement is obviously false?

> But we must tread carefully to address the question of where is the line
> drawn. Many of us express opinions about life in general in our
> signature tags. And many of those opinions expressed are fairly harmless
> and are not interpreted as offensive in any way.

Correct. Offense/discomfort is in the eye of the beholder.
So, can I really get someone removed from the community just by
claiming I am offended or made to feel uncomfortable by some stupid
comment, or quote they repeat, in a section of the email that is
clearly marked as not part of the email substantive content?
Without asking them to stop?
Without them continuing after they have been asked to stop?

> But at what point does
> it cross the line?  Some, like this one, are very clear, and others are
> not so clear, and subject to interpretation.

Again, I'll defer to your knowledge of the religion.

Mark

> Regulating taglines in such a way is not going to be as easy as one
> might think and I want to see us come to a decision that is not viewed
> as censorship but also ensures the safe and positive collaboration of
> all participants in this project, across religious, political, cultural,
> racial and gender divides.  That is what we, the Board, will have to
> address.
>
> Bryen Yunashko
> openSUSE Board Member
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