Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (109 mails)

[Karsten König <remur@xxxxxxx>]

Am Dienstag, 9. März 2010 21:31:51 schrieb N B Day:
> Over the weekend and as recently as early today, Tuesday 9 March, an
> individual has posted several messages in the opensuse-en list which
> have the following text appended to them as a tag line:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> “The sword of Muhammad and the Qur'an are the most fatal enemies of
> civilization, liberty and truth which the world has ever known - an
> unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will.”
> --Sir William Muir
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message ID 4B91DFA$.4010402, 4B9327B7.6030506, 4B960398.90500

Hmm could you provide links? I found 
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2010-03/msg00435.html , but another mail 
from the same person seems to indicate its a random quote out of a bunch of 
quotes he attaches.
Have you actually replied to the person yourself that you feel offended?


> The (far too kind, in my opinion) Wikipedia article on William Muir is
> here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Muir A quotation from Muir on
> Islam is pretty well analogous to a quotation from Karl Luegner on the
> Jews or George C. Wallace on the virtues of African-Americans.  Not
> likely to be fair and balanced.

Is this the same Muir whos picture is in Sam and Max? Where you grow some 
fruit the shape of his head afterwards or something.
Sorry for OT but it's the only Muir I know =)

> These sentiments borrowed from Muir were not germane to the topic
> underthe quotation of discussion, nor could they possibly be on a list
> devoted to helping English-speaking openSUSE users world wide use and
> enjoy this wonderful distribution.
>
> I cannot imagine what purpose the poster might have had in posting no
> fewer than three copies of this appalling bit of 19th century bigotry
> other than to make people who follow Islam or come from Islamic cultures
> feel discriminated against and unwanted in opensuse-en.  It doesn't
> contribute anything, it doesn't inform, it didn't have anything to do
> with the topic; it's just a vile bit of slime which is designed to cause
> hurt to approximately one quarter of humankind.

I agree, the quote is distasteful and close minded, but I guess it's a quote 
he likes and feels like sharing in his mails, it's after the actual mail so 
just an attachment unspecific to the discussion.
 
> I complained to the list owner early on Sunday, my time.  I have had no
> response.  As I said above, the postings continue.
>
> I addressed this in the off-topic forum (where ad hominims are on-topic)
> and the consensus among participants there was that I am a stupid prig
> and should just shut up.  In the wake of this I have been favored by a
> large number of unsolicited private emails from some of the same people
> putting the point that I am a stupid prig even more forcefully.  Twit
> filtering is so easy now that I'm not really bothered by it; I am
> surprised at the number and vehemence of them.the quotation of

Again link to the forum please? If there were insults this indicates bad 
etiquette and the forum should deal with it appropriatly, but I think people 
would like to make their own opinion about it.

> I suggest a thought experiment for those here who may agree that I'm
> just a stupid prig:  substitute "Jesus and the Bible" or "Judah Maccabee
> and the Torah" for "Muhammad and Qur'an" in the above.

> The final section of the OpenSUSE Guiding Principles reads in part as
> follows:
>
> "We believe that a diverse community based on mutual respect is the base
> for a creative and productive environment enabling the project to be
> truly successful. We don't tolerate social discrimination and aim at
> creating an environment where people feel accepted and safe from
> offense."
>
> Complete text is here: http://en.opensuse.org/Guiding_Principles

Offense is when you feel offended, as I said I agree the quote is truly bad 
taste and close minded, but I don't think he intents to offend every muslim 
here though.

> How is it that someone is allowed to post the paragraph quoted above
> repeatedly on the opensuse-en list without comment or objection from
> anyone? 

Most come from a christian and jewish heritage here, so most aren't offended 
by a statement against islam. I don't think many would be offended by 
attaching quotes against catholics, or against a stupid former president of 
the USA, as people tend to have grown a thick skin on lists.


> How does permitting this comport with the Guiding Principles?
> Are they just a bunch of high-sounding empty words?


I agree the quote is offensive towards muslims and should not be used on this 
open list, but action should be chosen wisely, so cracking down on opinions 
will not lead to a closed list where people feel they can't express their 
opinion.
I for example love this: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy 
your life." and think it'd be my right to show that point of view in my mails 
as well, and no this isn't meant to offend anybody.



Karsten
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