Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (89 mails)

[Magnus Boman <captain.magnus@xxxxxxxxx>]

Clayton,

On Tue, 2007-09-11 at 09:11 +0200, Clayton wrote:
> I have raised an issue regarding the new GTK version of the YAST
> software installer over on the user mailing list, and it was suggested
> I start a new thread here.
> 
> There has been a lot of work done on YAST to give the Gnome version of
> the frontend a GTK look and feel.  For the most part, the layout and
> workflow of all the components remained the same with the changes
> focused only on GTK theming.  This is a good idea as it brings YAST in
> line with the Gnome look and feel for the Gnome users.
> 
> One change stands out though, the changes made to the software
> installer component.  The Gnome version of the YAST software component
> has been completely reworked.  From what I read, there were several
> very valid reasons for this, including (among many reasons):
>  - a simplification of the interface
>  - the QT based backend is in dire need of rework
> 
> The result is a GTK YAST component that is radically different from
> the QT version.
> 
> This raises an important usability issue... with a totally different
> software maintenance component between Gnome and KDE, there is a major
> impact to documentation, support and the development path.
> Documentation must now maintain conditional procedural information (If
> Gnome then do this, if KDE then do the other).  Support must consider
> which window manager the customer is using and adapt their support
> processes accordingly.  Development must now continue down two paths
> (development resources are hard to come by as it is... for example, a
> reason given for using only Tango icons in YAST was a lack of
> resources to maintain 2 icon sets).
> 
> While these kinds of changes are important, and in many cases badly
> needed to keep openSUSE a viable product, this impact is critical to
> consider.
> 
> I would like to propose a couple of things to help the improvement process.
> 
> 1.  Whenever a major change is introduced that radically changes the
> workflow of core components (like YAST), there must be a simple and
> clear way to switch between the new way of working and the old.
> 
> My preference is to keep the old default in place, but make it clear
> there is a new tool in place that is being tested and provide the user
> the choice to switch.  This is very important to people like myself
> who support openSUSE in the real world because there are massive
> processes built up around existing workflows.  A radical change like
> the GTK software installer costs time and money for people who now
> have to contend with this change.
> 
> 2.  If a radical change or improvement is in the works for a YAST
> component, then that change must include BOTH the GTK and QT versions.
> (or as a bare minimum, there must be a plan to synch the two tools
> within one release cycle).  The GTK and QT versions of YAST need to be
> in synch.... not in look, but in workflow.  The same options need to
> be present in BOTH versions of YAST.  If a major change is planned for
> QT, then the GTK version needs to reflect that change as well, and
> vice versa.
> 
> 3.  The GTK software installation component of YAST should either be
> reworked to bring the workflow back in line with the existing QT one,
> or the QT version needs to be reworked to bring its workflow in line
> with the GTK one.  Of course this would also include usability
> improvements  and fixing the old backend (something both versions are
> in real need of).
> 
> I am sure that there is more I can add here, but these 2 points would
> go a long way towards keeping openSUSE (and SLED/SLES) consistent and
> usable.  YAST is a highly important and critical part of openSUSE.  It
> is this tool that really makes openSUSE stand out as a better choice
> (in addition to the very professional "polish" that we give the
> product).  This critical part of openSUSE must remain consistent
> regardless of theming for one one window manager or another.
> 
> C.

Just wanted to say thanks for this email and the way you expressed your
thoughts. I'm cc'ing Michael Meeks as he's not subscribed to this list.

Cheers,
Magnus


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