Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (95 mails)
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Re: [opensuse-project] my experiences as a Ubuntu user with the 10.3 beta 1 GNOME CD
- From: Alberto Passalacqua <alberto.passalacqua@xxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:41:21 +0200
- Message-id: <1187718082.12990.35.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Alexander,
> As soon as I started up my notebook, I noticed the beautiful Grub,
> bootsplash and GDM artwork. openSUSE does a very good job at the art
> department. The improved start up time which is claimed by the openSUSE
> developers is a good thing, but I didn't realy notice it, my feeling
> says Ubuntu still starts up faster. Also, after starting openSUSE from
> Grub, I'm staring at a black screen for twenty seconds before the boot
> splash finally came up. The start up process could use slightly more
> polish in that regard. I also noticed the installer by default has
> autologin enabled. I disabled it, and I question if it's a sane default.
> Isn't it good to have more security if the user has to enter a username
> and password in GDM? Otherwise anyone who steals your notebook can
> easily access your data.
You can decide if you want autologin at installation time, when you
create the users of the system. There's a checkbox there. I think it's
ok to have autologin selected by default because new linux users
probably want it.
> There is only room for six "Favorite Applications" in the menu, after a
> clean install those are: Firefox, Evolution, Banshee, OpenOffice.org
> Writer, F-Spot and Nautilus. I'd certainly use all of those applications
> frequently (except I'd use Epiphany instead of Firefox) but I'd also use
> Pidgin, X-Chat, gedit and GIMP often, possibly more. That makes for at
> least ten favorite applications for an average user like me. The "Recent
> Applications" beneath the "Favorite Applications" don't seem useful to
> me.
You can add all the favourite applications you want. Just right click
onto the app icon in the application browser and choose "Add to
favourite".
> If I want to use an application which is not a favorite application I
> have to click "More Applications...". Then the "Application Browser"
> opens. I think it's a bit messy, for example I can also find an entry
> for "Logout" and "Lock Screen" there, which is already in the menu
> itself and for that reason unnecessary in the "Application Browser". The
> "Application Browser" also contains entries like "Screen Resolution" and
> "Appearance" which are already located in the "Control Center".
I agree.
> There are a few solutions for this problem which I'd like to see. One
> solution is simply to use smaller icons and text in the "Favorite
> Applications" section, so that there is room for more entries there,
> twelve would be enough I think. Possibly some would say that this way it
> would look cluttered and not pretty, though. However, I think the best
> solution would be to integrate the "Applications" menu as it is seen in
> standard GNOME, the expanding menu with applications grouped in
> categories, inside the "Computer" menu. Then you would have the best of
> both worlds. This would mean removing the "Favorite Applications"
> section and placing categories like "Internet" and "Office" there, which
> would reveal the applications in that category when that category is
> pointed with the mouse cursor.
It was proposed in bugzilla (novell.bugzilla.com). If you're interested,
look for the enhancement request and vote for it ;-)
> When I opened YaST in the "Control Center", it occurred to me that it
> has a GTK interface now. That's great, because YaST with the Qt
> interface looked so out of place in GNOME. It still seems to contain a
> few bugs though, for example as soon as you exit a module you opened in
> YaST, you get an error message. I hope the bugs can be fixed in time and
> that it will make it to the final release?
We are at beta stage. Of course you won't see that in the final
release :-)
> There are some other annoying bugs, of course I know I was using beta 1,
> but these bugs seem so obvious to me. I wanted to install Epiphany
> because that's more integrated in GNOME than Firefox, I click "Install
> Software" in the "Computer" menu, my notebook starts loading a bit, but
> then nothing happens? I click "Desktop Effects" in the "Application
> Browser" to enable Compiz, but nothing happens? I click "Logout" in the
> "Computer" menu, but nothing happens (when I hit the power button on my
> notebook to shut down the hard way, that did make the logout dialog
> appear)?
All known and fixed bugs. Please check bugzilla and if you find
something which was not reported, add it.
> When I try to use the "Online Update" module in the "YaST
> Control Center" (because the OpenSUSE updater, which is accessible
> through the taskbar in the right corner, doesn't show any updates, which
> seems unlikely since I haven't updated after installing beta 1) it says
> "No active update source is available" and asks me if I want to quit?
Updates are not provided for development releases, if not to test the
updater itself.
You have no update repository because it was not added at installation
time. You can add it automatically in yast however, if you forgot to do
that while installing, after the network test.
> In
> the "Software Repositories" module of the "YaST Control Center" I
> noticed that only the CD was enabled as a repository (which I disabled
> because it kept bugging me about the CD when I wanted to install some
> stuff) and that the SL-OSS-factory and SL-Factory-non-oss were disabled
> by default?
Yes, this is a choice. Online repositories are not added automatically
if the user doesn't explicitly accept them. You can decide to add them
at installation time by selecting them or after, by means of the
dedicated YaST tool.
> The splash screen for OpenOffice.org is borked, and there
> are no icons visible in it's interface?
Known bug and fixed.
> If I'm correct openSUSE still ships XGL. Why not use AIGLX, which is
> included in X.org itself, or the NVIDIA drivers, depending on the
> available videocard? I thought XGL is no longer necessary now?
Nvidia drivers can't be directly shipped in the distribution for legal
reasons. However it is possible to easily install them by means of KMP's
provided by nVidia and ATI, and following the instructions on the wiki.
Who distributes binary drivers in the distribution is infringing the
GPL :-)
> Also there don't seem to be any easy instructions for enabling playback
> of restricted audio and video formats on openSUSE. Ubuntu has this page
> - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - which gives the
> simple command "sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
> gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad
> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse" to enable playback of restricted
> audio and video formats.
Providing potentially patented codecs on the official repository is not
possible, again for legal reasons. For the same issue, the wiki doesn't
link or contains information on how to install codecs. However, they're
available trough 3rd party repository like packman, whose link is listed
in the "Addional repositories" section of the wiki. Detailed
instructions are reported on a separated wiki, not Novell related:
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
> Even better, Ubuntu has automated codec
> installation, and it also has a "Restricted Devices Manager" to allow
> easy installation of the NVIDIA drivers. openSUSE has this page
> -http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats - to inform about restricted
> formats. It doesn't mention any easy way to install those extra
> GStreamer packages like in Ubuntu. I'm not interested in DVD playback.
For what I know, openSUSE is working on providing an easy way to install
codecs _legally_, and a solution should come for 10.3.
> In the MP3 section the first suggestion is to install RealPlayer or
> banshee-helix (no way!), the (better) second suggestion suggests
> installing an extra GStreamer package, but instead of explaining on the
> page itself an easy way to download an RPM through a repository, it
> links to a tutorial on an external website which explain how to manually
> download and install a package, which is user unfriendly by Ubuntu's
> standards. And besides MP3, it doesn't mention enabling playback of AAC
> and restricted video formats. It does not mention w32codecs (which is an
> apt-get away in Ubuntu).
Probably you don't know that providing those codecs might expose Novell
to legal issues. The only solution is to pay for codecs' licences. Give
a look at the costs on the net ;-)
> In the NTFS section ntfs-3g is not mentioned
> (which is an apt-get away in Ubuntu).
ntfs-3g will be available and enabled by default in 10.3.
> Concerning the NVIDIA drivers, it
> tells me to get the official NVIDIA drivers from NVIDIA itself? Again,
> in Ubuntu this can be done through the Restricted Devices Manager. On
> this page - http://en.opensuse.org/Flash_9 - it is explained how you can
> install Flash on openSUSE. Again, it doesn't explain how you can do that
> through openSUSE's own repositories, but refers to the Adobe website.
> Strange, because I installed flash from the openSUSE repositories myself
> (I believe after enabling the non-OSS Factory repository?). These -
> http://en.opensuse.org/Optimal_Use_of_MS_TrueType_Core_Fonts_for_a_KDE_Desktop_on_SuSE - are the only instructions I found for installing the Microsoft TrueType Core Fonts ;(which is quite essential because those fonts are used so often in text documents and on websites), but the instructions are KDE specific. Also, I can't find openSUSE packages of David Turner's font rendering patches anywhere on the web, while meanwhile they are easy to find - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=343670 - on Ubuntu's forums. As you've probably guessed I'm really disappointed with openSUSE here, and I'm considering to install Ubuntu again after just a few days of testing because Ubuntu makes life so much more easy. Package management is a lot easier in Ubuntu with Synaptic.
For nVidia drivers, read above. Instructions are on the wiki.
Flash is available on the DVD and in the non-OSS repository, and is
automatically installed if the repository is available at the
installation time or you use the DVD. Same for java.
> As a last thing I wanted to mention, I can get a good idea of the
> direction Ubuntu is taking and it's progress through the blueprints on
> Launchpad - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - and the
> information pages - http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe4 - about
> Ubuntu's test releases. Of course openSUSE News -
> http://news.opensuse.org/ - provided news on new features such as
> 1-click install and improved boot time, but I still think Ubuntu is
> doing better than openSUSE in this respect.
Explain why, please. It would be helpful.
> Also, Ubuntu has official
> forums - http://ubuntuforums.org/ - which openSUSE should have, too.
I agree on this. It seems openSUSE is in love with mailing lists,
without understanding they're less accessible to users. It's quite a
long time I try to say this without much success.
Regards,
Alberto
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> As soon as I started up my notebook, I noticed the beautiful Grub,
> bootsplash and GDM artwork. openSUSE does a very good job at the art
> department. The improved start up time which is claimed by the openSUSE
> developers is a good thing, but I didn't realy notice it, my feeling
> says Ubuntu still starts up faster. Also, after starting openSUSE from
> Grub, I'm staring at a black screen for twenty seconds before the boot
> splash finally came up. The start up process could use slightly more
> polish in that regard. I also noticed the installer by default has
> autologin enabled. I disabled it, and I question if it's a sane default.
> Isn't it good to have more security if the user has to enter a username
> and password in GDM? Otherwise anyone who steals your notebook can
> easily access your data.
You can decide if you want autologin at installation time, when you
create the users of the system. There's a checkbox there. I think it's
ok to have autologin selected by default because new linux users
probably want it.
> There is only room for six "Favorite Applications" in the menu, after a
> clean install those are: Firefox, Evolution, Banshee, OpenOffice.org
> Writer, F-Spot and Nautilus. I'd certainly use all of those applications
> frequently (except I'd use Epiphany instead of Firefox) but I'd also use
> Pidgin, X-Chat, gedit and GIMP often, possibly more. That makes for at
> least ten favorite applications for an average user like me. The "Recent
> Applications" beneath the "Favorite Applications" don't seem useful to
> me.
You can add all the favourite applications you want. Just right click
onto the app icon in the application browser and choose "Add to
favourite".
> If I want to use an application which is not a favorite application I
> have to click "More Applications...". Then the "Application Browser"
> opens. I think it's a bit messy, for example I can also find an entry
> for "Logout" and "Lock Screen" there, which is already in the menu
> itself and for that reason unnecessary in the "Application Browser". The
> "Application Browser" also contains entries like "Screen Resolution" and
> "Appearance" which are already located in the "Control Center".
I agree.
> There are a few solutions for this problem which I'd like to see. One
> solution is simply to use smaller icons and text in the "Favorite
> Applications" section, so that there is room for more entries there,
> twelve would be enough I think. Possibly some would say that this way it
> would look cluttered and not pretty, though. However, I think the best
> solution would be to integrate the "Applications" menu as it is seen in
> standard GNOME, the expanding menu with applications grouped in
> categories, inside the "Computer" menu. Then you would have the best of
> both worlds. This would mean removing the "Favorite Applications"
> section and placing categories like "Internet" and "Office" there, which
> would reveal the applications in that category when that category is
> pointed with the mouse cursor.
It was proposed in bugzilla (novell.bugzilla.com). If you're interested,
look for the enhancement request and vote for it ;-)
> When I opened YaST in the "Control Center", it occurred to me that it
> has a GTK interface now. That's great, because YaST with the Qt
> interface looked so out of place in GNOME. It still seems to contain a
> few bugs though, for example as soon as you exit a module you opened in
> YaST, you get an error message. I hope the bugs can be fixed in time and
> that it will make it to the final release?
We are at beta stage. Of course you won't see that in the final
release :-)
> There are some other annoying bugs, of course I know I was using beta 1,
> but these bugs seem so obvious to me. I wanted to install Epiphany
> because that's more integrated in GNOME than Firefox, I click "Install
> Software" in the "Computer" menu, my notebook starts loading a bit, but
> then nothing happens? I click "Desktop Effects" in the "Application
> Browser" to enable Compiz, but nothing happens? I click "Logout" in the
> "Computer" menu, but nothing happens (when I hit the power button on my
> notebook to shut down the hard way, that did make the logout dialog
> appear)?
All known and fixed bugs. Please check bugzilla and if you find
something which was not reported, add it.
> When I try to use the "Online Update" module in the "YaST
> Control Center" (because the OpenSUSE updater, which is accessible
> through the taskbar in the right corner, doesn't show any updates, which
> seems unlikely since I haven't updated after installing beta 1) it says
> "No active update source is available" and asks me if I want to quit?
Updates are not provided for development releases, if not to test the
updater itself.
You have no update repository because it was not added at installation
time. You can add it automatically in yast however, if you forgot to do
that while installing, after the network test.
> In
> the "Software Repositories" module of the "YaST Control Center" I
> noticed that only the CD was enabled as a repository (which I disabled
> because it kept bugging me about the CD when I wanted to install some
> stuff) and that the SL-OSS-factory and SL-Factory-non-oss were disabled
> by default?
Yes, this is a choice. Online repositories are not added automatically
if the user doesn't explicitly accept them. You can decide to add them
at installation time by selecting them or after, by means of the
dedicated YaST tool.
> The splash screen for OpenOffice.org is borked, and there
> are no icons visible in it's interface?
Known bug and fixed.
> If I'm correct openSUSE still ships XGL. Why not use AIGLX, which is
> included in X.org itself, or the NVIDIA drivers, depending on the
> available videocard? I thought XGL is no longer necessary now?
Nvidia drivers can't be directly shipped in the distribution for legal
reasons. However it is possible to easily install them by means of KMP's
provided by nVidia and ATI, and following the instructions on the wiki.
Who distributes binary drivers in the distribution is infringing the
GPL :-)
> Also there don't seem to be any easy instructions for enabling playback
> of restricted audio and video formats on openSUSE. Ubuntu has this page
> - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - which gives the
> simple command "sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
> gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad
> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse" to enable playback of restricted
> audio and video formats.
Providing potentially patented codecs on the official repository is not
possible, again for legal reasons. For the same issue, the wiki doesn't
link or contains information on how to install codecs. However, they're
available trough 3rd party repository like packman, whose link is listed
in the "Addional repositories" section of the wiki. Detailed
instructions are reported on a separated wiki, not Novell related:
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats
> Even better, Ubuntu has automated codec
> installation, and it also has a "Restricted Devices Manager" to allow
> easy installation of the NVIDIA drivers. openSUSE has this page
> -http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats - to inform about restricted
> formats. It doesn't mention any easy way to install those extra
> GStreamer packages like in Ubuntu. I'm not interested in DVD playback.
For what I know, openSUSE is working on providing an easy way to install
codecs _legally_, and a solution should come for 10.3.
> In the MP3 section the first suggestion is to install RealPlayer or
> banshee-helix (no way!), the (better) second suggestion suggests
> installing an extra GStreamer package, but instead of explaining on the
> page itself an easy way to download an RPM through a repository, it
> links to a tutorial on an external website which explain how to manually
> download and install a package, which is user unfriendly by Ubuntu's
> standards. And besides MP3, it doesn't mention enabling playback of AAC
> and restricted video formats. It does not mention w32codecs (which is an
> apt-get away in Ubuntu).
Probably you don't know that providing those codecs might expose Novell
to legal issues. The only solution is to pay for codecs' licences. Give
a look at the costs on the net ;-)
> In the NTFS section ntfs-3g is not mentioned
> (which is an apt-get away in Ubuntu).
ntfs-3g will be available and enabled by default in 10.3.
> Concerning the NVIDIA drivers, it
> tells me to get the official NVIDIA drivers from NVIDIA itself? Again,
> in Ubuntu this can be done through the Restricted Devices Manager. On
> this page - http://en.opensuse.org/Flash_9 - it is explained how you can
> install Flash on openSUSE. Again, it doesn't explain how you can do that
> through openSUSE's own repositories, but refers to the Adobe website.
> Strange, because I installed flash from the openSUSE repositories myself
> (I believe after enabling the non-OSS Factory repository?). These -
> http://en.opensuse.org/Optimal_Use_of_MS_TrueType_Core_Fonts_for_a_KDE_Desktop_on_SuSE - are the only instructions I found for installing the Microsoft TrueType Core Fonts ;(which is quite essential because those fonts are used so often in text documents and on websites), but the instructions are KDE specific. Also, I can't find openSUSE packages of David Turner's font rendering patches anywhere on the web, while meanwhile they are easy to find - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=343670 - on Ubuntu's forums. As you've probably guessed I'm really disappointed with openSUSE here, and I'm considering to install Ubuntu again after just a few days of testing because Ubuntu makes life so much more easy. Package management is a lot easier in Ubuntu with Synaptic.
For nVidia drivers, read above. Instructions are on the wiki.
Flash is available on the DVD and in the non-OSS repository, and is
automatically installed if the repository is available at the
installation time or you use the DVD. Same for java.
> As a last thing I wanted to mention, I can get a good idea of the
> direction Ubuntu is taking and it's progress through the blueprints on
> Launchpad - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - and the
> information pages - http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe4 - about
> Ubuntu's test releases. Of course openSUSE News -
> http://news.opensuse.org/ - provided news on new features such as
> 1-click install and improved boot time, but I still think Ubuntu is
> doing better than openSUSE in this respect.
Explain why, please. It would be helpful.
> Also, Ubuntu has official
> forums - http://ubuntuforums.org/ - which openSUSE should have, too.
I agree on this. It seems openSUSE is in love with mailing lists,
without understanding they're less accessible to users. It's quite a
long time I try to say this without much success.
Regards,
Alberto
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For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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