Il giorno gio, 24/05/2007 alle 03.06 -0500, M Harris ha scritto:
First, you do not need to send the return mail to me AND to the list. All you need to do is to send it to the list.
It's common practise to do so.
[ this is common knowledge... you would have to be absent, blind, and deaf to have missed it, but in case you DID miss it... never fear, that's what we have archives for.
Maybe it's your knowledge. I'm online every single day an various channels, and I don't see people continuously attacked or complaining about being attacked. It happens, yes. So what? Maybe there are reasons for that.
All you need to do to get a sampling is to search this site:
...for any or all of the following phrases just as starters:
"stfu" "shut the fuck up" "kick your ass"
... or pick some of George Carlin's "seven words you can't say on TV"...
Well... you get the idea... please do not play games here and pretend that this is not a problem, or that you are unaware of the problem. When the individuals involved (and they are a relative few) are asked to cease and desist--- then usually they escalate with defiance and make it clear that they have no intention of following any sort of Guiding Principles... barbarians never capitulate--- and they must always have the last foul word.
You're the only one who plays games here. You try to make things bigger than what they are and to describe community members as barbarians. And you post off-topic messages in this mailing list (sorry if I contribute, but I really can't accept your message will pass without opposition).
Proofs, not profs... but the word you were searching for is "evidence". [see above]
Proof and evidence are synonyms. Check please.
The quality of the distro is very important... but not more important than good PR, and at the moment Novell has a serious PR problem. Suse is the top distro in quality (I mean this, bar none)... but it is the number two distro in distribution, second to Ubuntu. And the reason is PR, not quality. You may be in denial, but give it some more thought.
Let do PR to the people who know how to do it. PR has nothing to do with the moralism you're trying to spread around.
Please consider something we have not discussed in detail yet... I work with folks (some of them quite young-- K-12) as an advocate for computing alternatives, open source development, the free software movement... and just plain fun with opensuse. The foul language and hostile demeanor of some of the participants to the opensuse lists (I monitor them all) prevent me from introducing the kids to this community--- its just not a safe place for them. You want someone to beta test Alpha4... wow... give it to a twelve-year-old... she'll find your bugs for you. But not now... not with this unruly behemoth.
The "foul" and "hostile" language was used in very rare occasions, and not as you want to make us believe, every time and with everyone. I had a lot of discussions with the community members in the past, sometime they were animated discussions too, but I've never been personally insulted, even if I was not on topic or I was complaining maybe too much. Animated discussions are not negative if they bring somewhere, and they produce some result. They happen at work and in life. A linux specific mailing list is not the place for a twelve years old, which should not spend a lot of time in front of a PC. He should interact with _real_ people and develop his personality. So please don't teach us how to talk to a twelve years old kid, because it's out of place. It's just useless moralism, again.
And its not just kids either... many adults are offended with sexual expletives, or blasphemy, or insults out of bathroom humor. Respect for individuals and the diversity of their respective cultures and their sensitivities mandates that all participants follow some form of protocol (call them Guiding Principles or what-have-you). Flagrant disregard for the sensibilities of others on a public mailing list (even very specific ones like opensuse) is a form of barbarism.
Respect must be earned, don't you think? And you didn't do much in that sense. Writing polite messages is not enough. You can irritate and hurt people's sensitivity even with polite messages like yours, by trying discredit members which have been contributing to the distribution since a lot of time or by emphasising issues which are really marginal. To be clear, once for all, *you* were attacked as a consequence of *your* behaviour (continuous off-topic posts, hijacking threads, ...). If you don't understand this, I don't think you have the authority to teach us about rules of communication, behaviour, and netiquette. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org