Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (144 mails)
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Re: [opensuse-project] Question on openSUSE and Novell-MS collaboration
- From: Adrian Schröter <adrian@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:18:32 +0100
- Message-id: <200611071718.32279.adrian@xxxxxxx>
Am Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:36 schrieb Martin Schlander:
> Tirsdag 07 november 2006 16:17 skrev Pascal Bleser:
> > Yes, a FAQ would be great too.
>
> I agree a lot with Pascal, it's impossible to predict the consequences of
> the agreement in general, but it's very clear that openSUSE is suffering a
> lot.
is it ? can't it be also the case that openSUSE and the general open source
world gets also lots of new chances ?
Some chances, I do see right now:
Linux will run easily under Windows. What does that mean ? Way more people
will be able to try & use Linux and its applications. People who would
never risk their Windows installation for just testing Linux.
Imagine the hughe amount of Windows users. They all are now potential Linux
users :)
Document exchange may become finally work for sure, because MS will join
OOo development.
> I sent the following questions to Novell Open Audio for their upcoming show
> on the subject, maybe some of these could be rephrased for an FAQ, and
> maybe they could also serve as inspiration for AJ's blog regarding which
> subjects to cover.
I can't answer them all right now, but I would like to comment some at least.
> 1) What is Novell's answer to the allegations of GPL violations with
> regards to: a) offering special patent protection for it's customers that
> does not apply to other users of the same code, including openSUSE users.
> And b) paying a royalty to a third party for distributing free software.
please see my comment to Pascals mail on opensuse. Short version: this will
definitive not happen thanks to the GPL license ;)
> 2) It's announced that MS will receive part of Novell's revenue. Is this a
> fixed sum per SLED subscription sold? or how will this be calculated?
sorry, I do not know the details, but these will usually not get published by
companies who do an agreement.
...
> 5) A lot of headlines say "MS to interoperate with open source". Isn't it
> the case that MS will only cooperate on interoperability with Novell's
> proprietary products?
well, thanks to the GPL you can only do changes, which are also usable by
others ;) So there is no way to add a functionality in a GPL software which
is not usable from someone else.
There could be of course a commercial product on top of it in some SUSE Linux
Enterprise product, but this is not a topic for openSUSE.org, I think.
> 6) Novell have talked a lot about open sourcing more of it's proprietary
> technologies in the recent years, which has endeed happened on some
> occasions, will this deal affect the plans to open up more technologies in
> the future?
Well, this is always decided for every single task. I do not think that anyone
from Novell said that all Novell products will be open source. But we do have
openSUSE.org for this reason. It is clear that openSUSE.org is an open source
project.
> 7) Are Novell surprised by the very 'mixed' reception that the deal has
> gotten from the community with users leaving and some even talking about a
> boycott?
I just can tell from my personal view. I am not surprised that there are
strong concerns, but I am also very happy that a large amount of people want
to figure out what this really means. And that it is not limited to "a way"
view.
In the end, as far as I can see it atm, there are only new possibilities and
no new limitations. The world becomes better by this step :)
And seriously, people who expect now the sudden death of Novell or open source
do definitive not understand the power of open source.
> 8) Isn't this whole thing Microsoft succeeding with the oldest trick in the
> book - "divide and conqour"?
Might be. But divide something from the 90% what they conqueror to us is a
nice step for us.
..
> 10) The patent issue seems to play a large role in this whole thing. Which
> surprises me a bit, since I thought Novell were focusing on the developing
> markets that don't seem to be as polluted by out of control software
> patents as the US apparently is. I hope Novell are working on a better long
> term solution to the problem than paying revenue to competitors. Money
> which will of course be reinvested in putting Novell out of business.
>
> These are new, I didn't send them to NOA, thought of 'em later.
The problem is that issues with patents do already affect our software. And we
need to deal with them. But these problems did also exist before and need
really to spend here quite some effort to find such software and remove it
(because it is very often anyway a GPL violation).
> 11) Is it possible that we will see technology that is known to be covered
> by a MS patent, implemented in openSUSE under an OSS license in the future?
This is something which we need to clarify in our policies, which are getting
prepared for public review.
My personal feeling would say that this could be theoretical possible, but it
would be definitive happen in a way that this makes it visible. For example
providing an extra (and optional!) package via the openSUSE Add-On CDs, like
we do with the other binary only stuff.
> 12) Is there any (small) area where the deal helps the Linux community at
> large, and not Novell/SUSE Linux _only_.
As written above, work on samba, OpenOffice and mono should be helpfull for
everyone who does use these.
bye
adrian
--
Adrian Schroeter
SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany
email: adrian@xxxxxxx
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Tirsdag 07 november 2006 16:17 skrev Pascal Bleser:
> > Yes, a FAQ would be great too.
>
> I agree a lot with Pascal, it's impossible to predict the consequences of
> the agreement in general, but it's very clear that openSUSE is suffering a
> lot.
is it ? can't it be also the case that openSUSE and the general open source
world gets also lots of new chances ?
Some chances, I do see right now:
Linux will run easily under Windows. What does that mean ? Way more people
will be able to try & use Linux and its applications. People who would
never risk their Windows installation for just testing Linux.
Imagine the hughe amount of Windows users. They all are now potential Linux
users :)
Document exchange may become finally work for sure, because MS will join
OOo development.
> I sent the following questions to Novell Open Audio for their upcoming show
> on the subject, maybe some of these could be rephrased for an FAQ, and
> maybe they could also serve as inspiration for AJ's blog regarding which
> subjects to cover.
I can't answer them all right now, but I would like to comment some at least.
> 1) What is Novell's answer to the allegations of GPL violations with
> regards to: a) offering special patent protection for it's customers that
> does not apply to other users of the same code, including openSUSE users.
> And b) paying a royalty to a third party for distributing free software.
please see my comment to Pascals mail on opensuse. Short version: this will
definitive not happen thanks to the GPL license ;)
> 2) It's announced that MS will receive part of Novell's revenue. Is this a
> fixed sum per SLED subscription sold? or how will this be calculated?
sorry, I do not know the details, but these will usually not get published by
companies who do an agreement.
...
> 5) A lot of headlines say "MS to interoperate with open source". Isn't it
> the case that MS will only cooperate on interoperability with Novell's
> proprietary products?
well, thanks to the GPL you can only do changes, which are also usable by
others ;) So there is no way to add a functionality in a GPL software which
is not usable from someone else.
There could be of course a commercial product on top of it in some SUSE Linux
Enterprise product, but this is not a topic for openSUSE.org, I think.
> 6) Novell have talked a lot about open sourcing more of it's proprietary
> technologies in the recent years, which has endeed happened on some
> occasions, will this deal affect the plans to open up more technologies in
> the future?
Well, this is always decided for every single task. I do not think that anyone
from Novell said that all Novell products will be open source. But we do have
openSUSE.org for this reason. It is clear that openSUSE.org is an open source
project.
> 7) Are Novell surprised by the very 'mixed' reception that the deal has
> gotten from the community with users leaving and some even talking about a
> boycott?
I just can tell from my personal view. I am not surprised that there are
strong concerns, but I am also very happy that a large amount of people want
to figure out what this really means. And that it is not limited to "a way"
view.
In the end, as far as I can see it atm, there are only new possibilities and
no new limitations. The world becomes better by this step :)
And seriously, people who expect now the sudden death of Novell or open source
do definitive not understand the power of open source.
> 8) Isn't this whole thing Microsoft succeeding with the oldest trick in the
> book - "divide and conqour"?
Might be. But divide something from the 90% what they conqueror to us is a
nice step for us.
..
> 10) The patent issue seems to play a large role in this whole thing. Which
> surprises me a bit, since I thought Novell were focusing on the developing
> markets that don't seem to be as polluted by out of control software
> patents as the US apparently is. I hope Novell are working on a better long
> term solution to the problem than paying revenue to competitors. Money
> which will of course be reinvested in putting Novell out of business.
>
> These are new, I didn't send them to NOA, thought of 'em later.
The problem is that issues with patents do already affect our software. And we
need to deal with them. But these problems did also exist before and need
really to spend here quite some effort to find such software and remove it
(because it is very often anyway a GPL violation).
> 11) Is it possible that we will see technology that is known to be covered
> by a MS patent, implemented in openSUSE under an OSS license in the future?
This is something which we need to clarify in our policies, which are getting
prepared for public review.
My personal feeling would say that this could be theoretical possible, but it
would be definitive happen in a way that this makes it visible. For example
providing an extra (and optional!) package via the openSUSE Add-On CDs, like
we do with the other binary only stuff.
> 12) Is there any (small) area where the deal helps the Linux community at
> large, and not Novell/SUSE Linux _only_.
As written above, work on samba, OpenOffice and mono should be helpfull for
everyone who does use these.
bye
adrian
--
Adrian Schroeter
SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany
email: adrian@xxxxxxx
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxx
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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