Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-packaging (142 mails)

["Sankar P" <psankar@xxxxxxxxxx>]

> > Right now,
> >
> > -> openSUSE community is spending effort to give chromium for openSUSE
>
> "openSUSE community" == Raymond (??)
>
> Is this correct? I mean, what's raymond stance towards this? This
> seems a huge falacy. Might work from the 'engineering' point of view,
> but from a motivational perspective, I have some doubts.

Yes, Raymond and everyone else who works on bringing chromium to openSUSE.
 
> > -> Chrome community is spending effort to give Chrome for openSUSE
>
> That's maybe a project management requirement from Chrome (to give a
> offer for most popular Linux platforms)... But, they never really
> cared/fixed the libpng12 issue, which somehow challenges your
> statement. If they were really spending efforts into openSUSE, they
> would have a Requires on the rpm for libpng12.
>
> Furthermore, do you believe it's fair to compare a product from Google
> (which has a whole team and project management behind) with a
> volunteer contribution like Raymond's?

The objective is common for both. To bring Chrom[e/ium] to openSUSE. Some work 
on personal time and some are paid to do that.

> I think we're running into way too much falacies.
>
>
>
> > -> There are no patches added by openSUSE to customize chromium
> > -> Chrome development is going on at a rapid pace
>
> Sure there's no patches, but there's probably hundreds of hours of
> work on it from contributors. Let's just trash them because we find
> out that Chrome is a better option ?

Nope. I merely recommended to redirect those hundreds-of-hours in a different 
place, but still relevant to openSUSE.

> > So, instead of working on two different places to make Chrome available for 
> *openSUSE* users, we should focus on just one place so that it will be more 
> efficient. Much like, two people digging a water-well in one place instead of 
> two different places.
>
> Chrome != Chromium ?
>
> Now why should you or anyone else impose to a volunteer contributor
> what or what they should or shouldn't do with their contributions? Now
> we have everyone enforcing project management decisions ? Are we
> community Linux or corporate linux?

Who enforced any decision ? 

If I have said, "Hey Raymond, now go and work with the Chrome community and get 
openSUSE rpms from there", it will be enforcing my decision. I merely 
suggested, [with a "out-of-the-box thinking" label], if we should just get 
packages from Chrome upstream, instead of building them ourselves. I have 
suggested the same earlier for Eclipse too when Stephen Shaw tried to get them 
built on OBS for openSUSE. 

Also, my decisions are not as respectful as a project manager decision :-) I am 
a mere humble contributor working in freetime, just like you. 

> Please enlighten me... You are a part of the Marketing team, so you
> know the answers better than I do.

I am not officially part of the Marketing team. I have not even sent any mail 
to the marketing team (except for 12.1 release notes as part of the GNOME 
team). I do not represent them in any form. I just distribute DVDs which I used 
to do even before a marketing team was formed.

> > Also, I do not intend to block Raymond. I am merely recommending him to 
> work with the Chrome community who is already giving RPMs for openSUSE. It is 
> just a proposal and he can happily reject it as he wish.
>
> You use Chrome or Chromium? Sounds fishy... to me it looks like you
> are trying to get in openSUSE the stuff you use in disfavor of a
> competitor product that you don't use but that others might use...

What competitor product ? Chrome and Chromium ? They are from the same project. 
Chromium is the name of the project. Chrome is the name of the release which is 
done by Google. A particular build configuration of Chromium sources + some 
codecs is called the Chrome browser release. They are not competing products.

> Are the Chrome/Chromium Licenses the same? Which one should we favor?
>
> Sankar, you are a member of the Marketing Team, I expect you or any
> other marketing contributor to be aware of the motivational factors
> and their impact in present or future volunteer contributor...
> Marketing isn't about posting news or making buzzes throught the
> world... it goes far beyond it, it would be interesting that people
> actually consider what they are supposed to consider and not only
> follow a narrow perspective and claim they are marketeers... How would
> I know that ?

Please the next answer :-)

> PS: we're just discussing hopefully in a constructive way and
> confronting ideas, this is not a personal attack, I hope that is
> clear.

I did not take any offence. I rarely feel offended ;-) But I've something to 
share. If I see things with pre-conceived negative notions, I will always find 
fault and will complain, even if the cause was good. I will see ghosts when 
there are none. In a similar way, my suggestion to work with the chromium 
project instead of building chromium ourselves is just a suggestion from a 
community member (me) to Raymond. The marketing team or project management has 
nothing to do with it. Even if they want to say something, it will be 
represented by them in a more formal way than via me. But because of your 
unplesant memories about marketing team or some openSUSE project decisions, you 
are assuming that I am trying to stop Raymond (or others) from working for 
openSUSE. I can assure you, it is not.

This mail thread has crossed levels of sanity and before 
http://psankar.blogspot.com/2009/08/most-wanted-feature.html blocks it, we 
should stop. The conclusion is:

1) Sankar made a suggestion. Raymond will reject or accept it, IOW, will do 
what Raymond feels best.
2) Nelson was unhappy about the suggestion. Sankar tried to convince him that 
the reasons are nothing political.
3) Everyone decided to respect the decision of Raymond and get back to spending 
their evenings doing constructive things :)

Thanks.

Sorry to everyone else who had to hear the noise. This will be the last mail 
from me in this thread.

Sankar


> > I understand that you may be unhappy with the board/foundation related 
> happenings in openSUSE, but trust me, my mail has nothing related to any of 
> it. Read through my previous mails once again with an clear mindset and see 
> if you find anything other than trying to get best Chrome experience on 
> openSUSE.
>
> This is not related to you, it meant in a general perspective...
> People want to do a lot of stuff but in the end nothing happens
> (happened to me also with GNOME:Ayatana).
>
> > Have Fun :-)
> >
> > Sankar
> >
> > P.S: I have been using Chrome from Google during 11.4 and even now on my 
> 12.1 box without any issues. So I am not really sure what the problem you 
> referred to was. Even if there was a problem, I am sure the chromium 
> community will be happy to fix it, for the benefit of the openSUSE users.
> >
>
>
>
> -- 
> Nelson Marques
>
> /* http://www.marques.so 
>   nmo.marques@xxxxxxxxx */

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