Am Samstag, 14. Juli 2012, 11:18:18 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Lørdag den 14. juli 2012 10:28:56 Sven Burmeister skrev:
Exactly, the question is not bound to amarok or any other particular app. It is about a default application broken for two months for those using the official packages, i.e. long enough (and even with a patch available) in order to use it as an example to find out how this can happen and how to make sure it does not happen again, i.e. answering the simple question: who is responsible?
That's easy to answer. The openSUSE KDE team/community is responsible as a whole. And we fail abyssmally.
Isn't that the standard "don't blame anyone specific"-answer given for the past few months, maybe years, whenever something went wrong. Isn't that exactly what has led to the current situation? At least I do not see any improvements since that answer is given to any problem named. Also, I do not see that the community failed, quite in contrast.
But of course not everyone in the community has the skills required to build a patched amarok and submit it to updates.
In my opinion the real question is about priorities - i.e. why are default applications in our official flagship release used by hundreds of thousands of people left to rot, while plenty of attention is given to OBS repos used by a few thousand geeks.
I think my perception differs a lot. I do not see any relevant attention given to non-official KDE repos by the KDE devs. KDF is part of the openSUSE development, i.e. any work on it is not wasted by definition. KRxy are just links that need updating from time to time and were broken for a long time which should prove that they get even less attention than e.g. KDF. KUSC is mainly maintained by Raymond. So where exactly do KDE devs waste their time on anything unofficial? I'd rather say there are no people at openSUSE left who are dedicated to KDE by the management, i.e. those that are supposed to be the KDE team get assigned to other things. No team restart will solve that problem – as was shown in the past. I think it contradicts itself if you blame the community if something goes wrong but want to decrease the priority of the platform the community participates most in. In fact, the community repos are better off as the official distro – because of the community, not because of its failure. Yet that work is withhold from the "official" openSUSE users and even marked as wasted – instead of used for all users. So here is my claim. The failure is to hold on to an unrealistic distro maintenance model. Official updates do not work, no time, no money, you name it, they simply don't. The current amarok issue is the best example. The community found the bug a year ago, the community created the patch, the community submitted it to KDF, all unofficial repos are fixed – yet the small step from not only accepting a fix into KDF but also submitting it as an official update was skipped by the KDE devs. Again, it does not matter why or how or whatsoever, it just shows that obs works a lot better, i.e. faster than the official distro because it is community-driven and does not rely on openSUSE dedicating people to KDE. Those on the kde maintainers list could have noticed the bug for a long time before it became relevant for the official distro. And here is my solution. Forget about official updates, they are a waste of time – of which KDE devs seem to have none. Does anyone know of any regressions people would have suffered if everybody was using KRxy? Any of those fixed slower than e.g. the amarok one? On top of that, since oss is always available, reverting from KRxy to oss is always possible in case somebody really finds a significant regression. AFAIK it's even possible to keep several versions of a package in a repo, so reverting would even be possible within KRxy. A few points: Finally establish a formal process for maintainers as promised here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=706813#c16 Get rid of STABLE, the fixes are in KRxy anyway. Get rid of KDF, use KUSC for packaging unreleased KDE versions and move them to KRxy as soon as they are released upstream. Use KRxy's packages to create a snapshot for an openSUSE release and enable that KRxy repo as update repo by default. Let those that want non-upstream bugfixes and backports buy a SuSE product. This sums-up to care more about those that participate in openSUSE and KDE, i.e. use obs to package KDE and fix bugs upstream, than those that don't, i.e. contribute nothing but usage. That might sound harsh, but those relying on the official packages are left alone anyway – I guess because of a lack of time on the openSUSE devs' side. If nobody is paid to be responsible for KDE then one should not hold on to a distro model which relies on exactly that. Instead one should start to use the community's and upstream's effort to maintain packages and distribute them to openSUSE users – officially. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org