Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (542 mails)
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[openFATE 307489] Combine repositories!
- From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:33:32 +0100 (CET)
- Message-id: <feature-307489-17@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: Ilya Chernykh (Ansus)
Feature #307489, revision 17
Title: Combine repositories!
openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger)
reject date: 2010-11-15 09:59:57
reject reason: Not done in time for openSUSE 11.3.
Priority
Requester: Important
Requested by: Jason Fergus (jfergus)
Partner organization: openSUSE.org
Description:
openSUSE would be at least 50x easier to install / maintain if they
took a different approach to the repositories.
Look at Fedora. They dropped Core and Extras and made it one big
distribution, then all the dag, livna and freshrpms combined into
rpmfusion.org. This is what should / needs to happen with openSUSE.
For someone who is used to doing it, this is probably not that big of a
deal. To someone who is used to installing Windows and having to scour
the Internet for drivers, it's not that big of deal.
To someone coming from using mostly Fedora, Ubuntu or Debian, this is
HUGE. Fedora is simple, add rpmfusion.org and probably the adobe yum
repository and you have access to everything from drivers to flash. In
Debian, just enable non-free and contrib, then the debian-multimedia
(for mplayer, mythtv etc) and you're all set. Ubuntu really only needs
medibuntu repositories and you can get everything you need for a decent
setup.
openSUSE has a ton that need to be enabled. Emulators, Pacman, nvidia,
etc. While it is nice and simple that you have a 'one click' install
for most things, it still would be easier / simpler to just run 'zypper
install atari800' without having to add the Emulator repository.
This and the menus are the only thing that really throws me off of
running openSUSE.
Discussion:
#1: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 15:18:53)
Have you heard about http://en.opensuse.org/Contrib ? :-)
#2: Jason Fergus (jfergus) (2009-08-23 19:43:34)
Apparently I hadn't! When did they implement this? I tried finding
something along these lines during my last romp in openSUSE
land. Which was 11.2m1 if I recall.
This is the right direction!
#3: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-06-24 18:26:30)
Unfortunately contrib is not as open as it should be, lots of package
are still to be found only in specialized repos (like Application:Geo,
Education or Games just to name a few) and lots of submitrequests are
declined. So contrib doesn't contain that much of additional software.
If all things lying around in the various OBS repos would really
dribble into the contrib repo than it might be of use. Otherwise the
repo situation remains fragmented.
Just as an example, I currently have 24 (!!!) repositories enabled,
which is _far_ to much.
#4: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-06-24 18:29:33)
Actually, this makes me languish for the Fedora package contribution
model where the central repository is administered by Red Hat employes
and community members. Within openSUSE the latter are still second
class citizen. Sigh!
#5: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) (2010-06-25 14:09:23) (reply to #4)
If the submitrequests are declined there is always a reason for that
(usually the package is not good enough). In Fedora you also have
review before puhsing package into Rawhide. So please stop spreading
FUD. I cannot imaging how to make Contrib "more open" than it is now.
#6: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-07-09 11:17:41) (reply to #5)
Sorry, it was not my intend to spread FUD as you call it. Nonetless,
Contrib contains only about 700 packages (that is debuginfo and
debugsource included), which is not all that much. Consider, if I want
to have merkaartor installed, I need the Application:Geo repo. Then
I've got GNUstep installed, which is in Education, libfann, which is in
devel:libraries:c++ and finally some games, which are found in the
Games repository.
While it is great that we have so many devel repositories in the
buildservice, I'd love to see, if stable packages would move into
Contrib or OSS right away instead of staying in all those custom themed
repositories forever.
Maybe we should put a poll on opensuse.org to see how many repositories
people have typically enabled, to see what I mean...
#7: Atri Bhattacharya (badshah400) (2010-07-09 12:20:35) (reply to #6)
The best solution, in my opinion, is not to combine repositories [since
it could lead to packages with bad scripts/mistakes in packaging get in
all the time, due to the difficulty of maintaining a repo the bigger it
is], but to have a great one-click install process, backed by a useful
search engine capable of showing preferred repo to install package
from, and a link to that search engine from the default browser
bookmarks. No one even needs to know how to subscribe to repositories,
and they should not need to know ideally.
#8: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-07-09 12:54:46) (reply to #7)
Hmm, from a user's perspective it won't make a difference if a bad
package is for example in a stable custom repository which he has to
use to get that package or in a combined bigger repository. One could
even say that in the latter case, a bad package may get more exposure
to users and therefore more testing, which should result in better
packages actually. Letting packages stay in custom repositories is also
a way to avoid responsability like: "Hey, it's not in OSS, so it's not
our fault, don't use buildservice repositories for production!". Of
course, I know what you mean when having a look at Ubuntu's universe
and multiverse repositories, which are indeed huge and have a lot of
broken packages inside, but as you said already, Fedora does quite a
good job at this...
#13: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-10 10:51:09) (reply to #8)
For example there is a good MDC messenger, good DC++ client FreeDC++
and many other apps which are available only in a home repo. But a end-
user cannot decide (even if he finds such package) whether it is good
and ready or in a non-usable development stage. Any package from home
repo is a bomb which may or may not explode.
#10: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-09 14:13:17) (reply to #5)
I sent some packages to Contrib but they were rejected without any
reason. I only can guess that they considered the application too old,
or bejected because upstream is dead or because it builds only for 32-
bit.
#11: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) (2010-07-09 19:36:17) (reply to #10)
I guess c) is correct - if package does not build for all
architectures, it is rejected.
#12: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-10 10:46:07) (reply to #11)
So what's the solution to have such packages in OBS repo (not home repo
whre it is difficult to find)?
#16: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) (2010-07-12 16:20:42) (reply to #12)
Fix the build by patching the package and request inclusion again.
+ #17: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-12-30 17:32:53) (reply to #16)
+ It is not designed to be built for 64-bit. This is by design. It is a
+ very old application.
#9: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-09 14:11:13)
I made some packages which are not accepted in Contrib because they of
no interest. I know no other general-purpose repository where I can
submit it (it is an office stuff). Education says its off-topic etc. So
the packages can only be found in my home repo which I presume not good
because hardens the search.
#14: Sławomir Lach (lachu) (2010-07-10 21:08:54)
Not better use Yast One Click installer to add repositories?
Adding many repositories could been difficult, but with Yast One Click
this is only one click.
#15: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2010-07-11 20:15:13) (reply to #14)
Adding many repositories is suboptimal in the first place, and
shouldn't really be made easier. There are already - time and again -
reports from users where you just can't figure out wth is going on
because they've got tons of repostiories just because it's cool to have
or something.
--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/307489
Feature #307489, revision 17
Title: Combine repositories!
openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger)
reject date: 2010-11-15 09:59:57
reject reason: Not done in time for openSUSE 11.3.
Priority
Requester: Important
Requested by: Jason Fergus (jfergus)
Partner organization: openSUSE.org
Description:
openSUSE would be at least 50x easier to install / maintain if they
took a different approach to the repositories.
Look at Fedora. They dropped Core and Extras and made it one big
distribution, then all the dag, livna and freshrpms combined into
rpmfusion.org. This is what should / needs to happen with openSUSE.
For someone who is used to doing it, this is probably not that big of a
deal. To someone who is used to installing Windows and having to scour
the Internet for drivers, it's not that big of deal.
To someone coming from using mostly Fedora, Ubuntu or Debian, this is
HUGE. Fedora is simple, add rpmfusion.org and probably the adobe yum
repository and you have access to everything from drivers to flash. In
Debian, just enable non-free and contrib, then the debian-multimedia
(for mplayer, mythtv etc) and you're all set. Ubuntu really only needs
medibuntu repositories and you can get everything you need for a decent
setup.
openSUSE has a ton that need to be enabled. Emulators, Pacman, nvidia,
etc. While it is nice and simple that you have a 'one click' install
for most things, it still would be easier / simpler to just run 'zypper
install atari800' without having to add the Emulator repository.
This and the menus are the only thing that really throws me off of
running openSUSE.
Discussion:
#1: Stephan Binner (beineri) (2009-08-23 15:18:53)
Have you heard about http://en.opensuse.org/Contrib ? :-)
#2: Jason Fergus (jfergus) (2009-08-23 19:43:34)
Apparently I hadn't! When did they implement this? I tried finding
something along these lines during my last romp in openSUSE
land. Which was 11.2m1 if I recall.
This is the right direction!
#3: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-06-24 18:26:30)
Unfortunately contrib is not as open as it should be, lots of package
are still to be found only in specialized repos (like Application:Geo,
Education or Games just to name a few) and lots of submitrequests are
declined. So contrib doesn't contain that much of additional software.
If all things lying around in the various OBS repos would really
dribble into the contrib repo than it might be of use. Otherwise the
repo situation remains fragmented.
Just as an example, I currently have 24 (!!!) repositories enabled,
which is _far_ to much.
#4: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-06-24 18:29:33)
Actually, this makes me languish for the Fedora package contribution
model where the central repository is administered by Red Hat employes
and community members. Within openSUSE the latter are still second
class citizen. Sigh!
#5: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) (2010-06-25 14:09:23) (reply to #4)
If the submitrequests are declined there is always a reason for that
(usually the package is not good enough). In Fedora you also have
review before puhsing package into Rawhide. So please stop spreading
FUD. I cannot imaging how to make Contrib "more open" than it is now.
#6: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-07-09 11:17:41) (reply to #5)
Sorry, it was not my intend to spread FUD as you call it. Nonetless,
Contrib contains only about 700 packages (that is debuginfo and
debugsource included), which is not all that much. Consider, if I want
to have merkaartor installed, I need the Application:Geo repo. Then
I've got GNUstep installed, which is in Education, libfann, which is in
devel:libraries:c++ and finally some games, which are found in the
Games repository.
While it is great that we have so many devel repositories in the
buildservice, I'd love to see, if stable packages would move into
Contrib or OSS right away instead of staying in all those custom themed
repositories forever.
Maybe we should put a poll on opensuse.org to see how many repositories
people have typically enabled, to see what I mean...
#7: Atri Bhattacharya (badshah400) (2010-07-09 12:20:35) (reply to #6)
The best solution, in my opinion, is not to combine repositories [since
it could lead to packages with bad scripts/mistakes in packaging get in
all the time, due to the difficulty of maintaining a repo the bigger it
is], but to have a great one-click install process, backed by a useful
search engine capable of showing preferred repo to install package
from, and a link to that search engine from the default browser
bookmarks. No one even needs to know how to subscribe to repositories,
and they should not need to know ideally.
#8: Sascha Peilicke (saschpe) (2010-07-09 12:54:46) (reply to #7)
Hmm, from a user's perspective it won't make a difference if a bad
package is for example in a stable custom repository which he has to
use to get that package or in a combined bigger repository. One could
even say that in the latter case, a bad package may get more exposure
to users and therefore more testing, which should result in better
packages actually. Letting packages stay in custom repositories is also
a way to avoid responsability like: "Hey, it's not in OSS, so it's not
our fault, don't use buildservice repositories for production!". Of
course, I know what you mean when having a look at Ubuntu's universe
and multiverse repositories, which are indeed huge and have a lot of
broken packages inside, but as you said already, Fedora does quite a
good job at this...
#13: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-10 10:51:09) (reply to #8)
For example there is a good MDC messenger, good DC++ client FreeDC++
and many other apps which are available only in a home repo. But a end-
user cannot decide (even if he finds such package) whether it is good
and ready or in a non-usable development stage. Any package from home
repo is a bomb which may or may not explode.
#10: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-09 14:13:17) (reply to #5)
I sent some packages to Contrib but they were rejected without any
reason. I only can guess that they considered the application too old,
or bejected because upstream is dead or because it builds only for 32-
bit.
#11: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) (2010-07-09 19:36:17) (reply to #10)
I guess c) is correct - if package does not build for all
architectures, it is rejected.
#12: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-10 10:46:07) (reply to #11)
So what's the solution to have such packages in OBS repo (not home repo
whre it is difficult to find)?
#16: Pavol Rusnak (prusnak) (2010-07-12 16:20:42) (reply to #12)
Fix the build by patching the package and request inclusion again.
+ #17: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-12-30 17:32:53) (reply to #16)
+ It is not designed to be built for 64-bit. This is by design. It is a
+ very old application.
#9: Ilya Chernykh (ansus) (2010-07-09 14:11:13)
I made some packages which are not accepted in Contrib because they of
no interest. I know no other general-purpose repository where I can
submit it (it is an office stuff). Education says its off-topic etc. So
the packages can only be found in my home repo which I presume not good
because hardens the search.
#14: Sławomir Lach (lachu) (2010-07-10 21:08:54)
Not better use Yast One Click installer to add repositories?
Adding many repositories could been difficult, but with Yast One Click
this is only one click.
#15: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2010-07-11 20:15:13) (reply to #14)
Adding many repositories is suboptimal in the first place, and
shouldn't really be made easier. There are already - time and again -
reports from users where you just can't figure out wth is going on
because they've got tons of repostiories just because it's cool to have
or something.
--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/307489
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