Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (518 mails)

< Previous Next >
[openFATE 305493] Look at plymouth for splash during boot
  • From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 23:22:30 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <feature-305493-87@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: jpxviii jpxviii (jpxviii)
Feature #305493, revision 87
Title: Look at plymouth for splash during boot

Hackweek V: Unconfirmed
Priority
- Requester: Desirable
+ Requester: Important

openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Stephan Kulow (coolo)
reject date: 2009-07-29 10:36:47
reject reason: running out of time and what we see so far is too little
too late ;(
Perhaps for 11.3, for 11.2 splashy sounds like the saver alternative.
Priority
Requester: Important

openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation
Priority
Requester: Important

openSUSE-11.4: Unconfirmed
Priority
Requester: Important

Requested by: Vincent Untz (vuntz)

Description:
I wanted to open a fate feature about this when I first heard of
plymouth, but reading
http://fedoramagazine.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/interview-fedora-10s-better-startup/
really makes me think we should go this way.
Ray's comment starting with "Every flicker and mode change in the boot
process takes away from the whole experience." is especially
interesting.
Is it okay to track the "don't show grub by default" here?

Relations:
- Fedora Better Startup Feature (url:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterStartup)

Discussion:
#1: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2008-11-30 00:32:58)
Cool idea.

#2: Kevin Dupuy (kdupuy9) (2009-01-17 21:42:12)
I like this idea. Flickers, dropping to text, etc. makes any OS look
unprofessional.

#3: Armin Moradi (amoradi) (2009-01-19 19:49:55)
Agreed, those flickers are very unprofessional and annoying.

#4: Stijn Van Nieuwenhuyse (svnieuw) (2009-01-20 15:22:17)
With plymouth it would also be possible tot deliver a nice bootsplash
for far more setups than now are available. For example, my laptop does
not have an appropriate 16-bit widescreen framebuffer mode. Currently
the options are to have a stretched splash or have the framebuffer set
to the native (non 16-bit) resolution with bootsplash disabled. With
Fedora 10's plymouth I am able to get a good looking startup.

#5: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-02-18 04:54:31)
Please lets not have another "green" technology put into the distro
until it is completely ready. Usability has to become a priority before
"bells and whistles" at the cost of basic functionality. The last few
releases we have been pushing unready projects into the distro while
they are unstable and immature ie: PulseAudio, KDE 4.0, Beagle, etc and
it always turns around to bite openSUSE in the rear end.

#6: Eric Springer (erikina) (2009-02-22 03:10:46) (reply to #5)
Absolutely. However, my experience of plymouth has been all positive
(unlike all those technologies you have listed). My understanding is
that plymouth degrades gracefully on all hardware that doesn't support
it, leaving it no worse off. So if this is the case, and we're sure
that it's not going to cause problems -- I'd really like to see it in
openSUSE.<br /><br /> But yeah, stability/usability before shininess.

#7: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-01 16:50:55)
Not sure where the problem is.. the openSUSE CD/DVD seemed to have only
two video mode switches - one as the bootloader moves into graphics
mode, and another when X is about to come up.

#8: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-03-01 17:11:00) (reply to #7)
Ya the appeal eludes me too. It's not like CRT's are the mainstream
anymore where you hear the *click* *click* even anymore.

#20: Bryan Stephenson (acreda1234) (2009-11-14 19:39:06) (reply to #8)
it may be a small issue but for the linux desktop to grow, it will
always be held against Win* and OSX and needs to look just a polished,
and most of my friends have Iphones if you know what i mean, only I
want android for it's better useability..

#23: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-12-30 20:26:01) (reply to #8)
It's not about the modeswitch clicks, but about the flicker. In fact,
if the bootloader happens to use the same resolution as you start the
kernel framebuffer with, there is no flicker at all. Just ugly stripes
on the screen for a second (on some models).

#9: Luis Medinas (lmedinas) (2009-06-02 05:36:05)
Since 11.2 will ship a new kernel (KMS) and xorg 1.6 this is a good
idea to replace the old bootsplash (unmaintained). Please review this
feature.

#10: T. J. Brumfield (enderandrew) (2009-06-13 19:50:07)
Consider this a vote for plymouth, grub2, and hiden grub menu when
there is only one OS.

#11: Jose Ricardo De Leon Solis (derhundchen) (2009-06-22 04:28:18)
(reply to #10)
I agree: plymouth, grub2 and the hidden grub menu would be desirable

#12: Luis Medinas (lmedinas) (2009-07-20 04:32:50)
There are some packages available for openSUSE Factory[1]. Don't know
what's the status since i didn't test it yet.
1 -
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/etrash:/plymouth/openSUSE_Factory/


#13: Holger Macht (hmacht) (2009-07-20 09:59:34)
Just a note to keep the graphical suspend in mind. We currently use
splashy for suspend/resume and bootsplash.org for booting. Whatever
there is done, please consider getting rid of the second splash system
in openSUSE. There should only be one which is used both for suspend
and booting.

#17: (brejc8) (2009-10-11 22:22:12) (reply to #13)
There are patches sent to the user-level-suspend team which allow
plymouth to be used as the graphical system (in place of splashy). This
would reduce the number applications which have themed.

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1252512677.4519.16.camel%
40trinidad.mandrakesoft.com&forum_name=suspend-devel
(http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1252512677.4519.16.camel%
40trinidad.mandrakesoft.com&forum_name=suspend-devel)

#14: Luis Medinas (lmedinas) (2009-07-20 17:20:55)
Yes is not acceptable using 2 applications for common stuff. We should
move to splashy (which supports both features) or plymouth.
Anyone want to came with a theme for opensuse ? Maybe the artwork team
have a word here.

#15: Jakub Steiner (jimmacfx) (2009-07-20 20:14:11) (reply to #14)
the artwork "team" has to create themes for both splashy and bootsplash
now. On top of that, bootsplash has a really nasty theming system. I
would really favor having to worry about splashy only.
The flicker-free aspect of plymouth is extremely appealing, so if it
can do what splashy does, let's go for it.
I really just wish the bootsplash zombie died for opensuse at last!

#16: Giorgos Koutsikos (ragecryx) (2009-07-28 02:51:02)
Just to mention that Plymouth sources are hosted in the Git repository
of freedesktop.org (http://cgit.freedesktop.org/plymouth/) just in case
anyone want to try it out (or any packager want to pack latest
version).

#18: Bart Otten (bartotten) (2009-10-13 15:58:44)
Any progress regaerding this feature? Would be nice to have it in 11.3

#19: Thomas Sundell (thsundel) (2009-10-20 09:08:40)
Nice feature, would be nice to see plymouth in 11.3

#21: Ludwig Nussel (lnussel) (2009-11-26 09:47:05)
Switching splash screen technology probably requires integration with
boot.crypto. Please notify me in time if there are changes.

#22: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-12-26 02:02:13)
If it helps reducing the number of bootsplash implementations SUSE has
to ship with, yes please.

#24: Atri Bhattacharya (badshah400) (2010-01-02 21:03:52)
Some useful points about how the guys at Fedora made plymouth work are
summarised here
http://blogs.gnome.org/halfline/2009/11/28/
(http://blogs.gnome.org/halfline/2009/11/28/)
The main points the author makes are:-
"... The way we accomplished this was:
1) I gave “plymouth quit” a “–retain-splash” option which told plymouth
to keep the boot splash’s contents on screen even after plymouth exits
2) krh (http://hoegsberg.blogspot.com/) and ajax
(http://ajaxxx.livejournal.com/) added a -nr option to the X server to
make X not clear the screen to black (or a weave) at start up
3) krh, airlied (http://airlied.livejournal.com/) , and darktama
(http://skeggsb.livejournal.com/) (Ben Skeggs) added the driver backend
support for -nr to intel, ati, and nouveau drivers respectiviely. Also,
Bill Nottingham made -nr work with the fbdev X driver.
4) ajax made the ugly big “X” mouse cursor not show up by default
5) I made gdm stuff the screen contents to a pixmap referenced by the
pseudo-standard _XROOTPMAP_ID root window property
6) I also made gnome-settings-daemon cross fade from the _XROOTPMAP_ID
pixmap when it loads its background. This step meant we also get a nice
transition from gdm to the user’s session, because it also causes a
crossfade to happen from gdm’s background to the user’s background
during login.
Another big piece to the puzzle was kernel modesetting. This is what
makes sure the right mode is set at boot up from the start. Jesse
Barnes (http://virtuousgeek.org/blog/index.php/jbarnes) and krh did
most of the work for that in the Intel driver (based on top of the
memory manager work anholt, keithp, and other Intel crew did), while
airlied did it for the ati driver, and darktama did it for nouveau ...
one big wrinkle in the whole process is the hand off from plymouth to
gdm. Plymouth exits, leaving the system in KD_GRAPHICS mode and hopes
that X starts and picks up the peices. This is not a very robust
design, because if X doesn’t start, the system will be stuck in
KD_GRAPHICS mode and the user won’t be able to switch VTs or really do
anything at all, but reboot ..."
Just thought it might be useful if openSUSE tries to implement it for
11.3.


#25: Thomas Sundell (thsundel) (2010-01-28 21:17:32)
Will we have a new boot splash system in 11.3?

#26: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-01-29 10:43:46) (reply to #25)
I'm not aware of anyone working on it.

#27: Roman Bysh (romanator) (2010-01-31 02:18:09)
If we start now, it should be perfected by the time 12.0 is released.

#28: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-02-01 11:16:08) (reply to #27)
Are you working on it? If so, I can set you as developer

#29: Kristen McWilliam (merrittkr) (2010-02-06 03:34:24)
Assuming stability can be achieved, I really like this idea. I can just
picture a little Geeko, sort of like the one on bootscreen now, turn
his head to look at you, curl his tail, eat a fly... It would add a
nice level of polish & "wow".

#30: Rémy Marquis (spyhawk) (2010-02-06 15:00:57) (reply to #29)
Well, before thinking what effects to ass on the future "bootsplash",
it would be good to have someone working on implementing plymouth on
openSUSE. There is still nobody willing to take care of this afaik.

#31: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2010-02-10 19:26:55)
How can anybody tell us there's no benefit in it?
Using KMS makes it obsolete to set framebuffer mode, which hardly ever
reflects proper modes on widescreen screens. Proper resolution = proper
appearance.
No benefit... Don't make me laugh. You can prepare a lot better splash
screens. Animated :) .
Bootsplash, USplash, Splashy - they should die.
Greatest disadvantage is (I guess) disability of creating shutdown
screen. I can't remember if Fedora had one.
They had animation ended with Fedora logo for startup and for shutdown
I've seen only Fedora logo all the time.
Then only nVIDIA users would have to wait for those dumbasses to
provide KMS support.

#33: Ralph Ulrich (ulenrich) (2010-03-18 21:44:17) (reply to #31)
Apropos shutdown screen:
Ubuntu now uses a tool for reporting shutdown lock events: Now Ubuntu
lucid shutdown is a second...
(But I am not able to report if ubuntu lucid shutdowns are clean
nowadays....)

#34: Ralph Ulrich (ulenrich) (2010-03-18 21:46:57) (reply to #33)
Apropos ubuntu lucid plymouth:
Using kdm / kubuntu and there plymouth is really annoying...

#32: Tristan Miller (psych0naut) (2010-02-16 13:35:43)
The link in the original post no longer works.  Can someone post a
replacement?

#35: Robert Xu (bravoall1552) (2010-04-13 04:07:11)
I definitely think openSUSE should catch up now. :)

#36: Martyn Hare (nthdegeek) (2010-08-04 20:16:33)
Stick with what is already here, it's superior in cases where things go
wrong and it doesn't depend on KMS, which isn't available for NVIDIA
users.
Plymouth is not reliable, one appears to be stuck with the splash
screen if Xorg can't load...  Or that was my experience when trying to
get NVIDIA drivers installed on Fedora.
Besides, KMS makes console->Xorg more seamless.  Red Hat's legacy RHGB
would be a superior option to plymouth in my honest opinion, as it has
better compatibility and one can do anything with it that Xorg can do
;)

#37: Rafael Belmonte (eaglescreen) (2010-08-06 21:07:13)
Switch to plymouth is a good idea, but only when plymouth to be really
ready, Debian and Ubuntu for instance are having some bugs/problems
with plymouth at this date.



--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/305493

< Previous Next >
This Thread
References