Feature changed by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Feature #306657, revision 32 Title: Core technologies we wish to see in 11.2 (kernel 2.6.31) openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) Description: This request revolves around the desire for 11.2 to implement some core technologies due out in Q3 2009 that will ensure the distribution is not obscelesent long before it is replaced by 11.3 in Q3 2010. These core technologies include: 1. Kernel 2.6.31 (due: end august/ start september). By the time 11.2 arrives in mid november the 2.6.31 kernel will already be ten weeks old, and 2.6.30 will be over six months old. 2. Xorg 7.5 / x-server 1.7 (due: mid august) By the time 11.2 arrives in mid november the x-server 1.6 will already be over six months old, and X.org 7.4 itself will be over a year old. The inclusion of X.org 7.5 and kernel 2.6.31 will keep 11.2 fresh and relevant throughout its nine month life, and prevent the perception of staleness among suse enthusiasts in 2010. Discussion: #1: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-07-06 14:09:29) Yes a new kernel for for Opensuse 11.1 would be a blessing and a benefaction! Opensuse with kernel 2.6.27.x is crap, because there is still no resolution to Bug 465039 (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=465039). I have been using the daily 2.6.30 kernels from ftp.suse. com/pub/projects/kernel/kotd/master for a while now since s2ram did not work on linux-next (kernel 2.6.28). However Apparmor was until recently not yet available for kernel 2.6.30 which is just too bad!! Couldn`t there be a kernel backport for 11.1? or KDE3 for 11.2 since KDE4 is still known to be buggy. (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-security-4/check-linux-install...). #2: Elmar Stellnberger ATK (estellnb) (2009-07-06 14:21:41) Yes there have been many great but mutually dependent improvements between Xorg and the new radeonhd driver recently. However there are still some nasty bugs (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22114). Please make sure that they are gone before the release of Opensuse 11.2. Perhaps the freedesktop development team could in time do better with some support from Novell. #3: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-09 14:49:42) Note: 11.3 will be released in July 2010, not Q3 2010 (8 month release cycle) #4: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-07-10 10:28:34) (reply to #3) Cheers for the clarification, but July is Q3, and i'd still like to see the above included in 11.2. :) with opensuse's longer release cycle they would be daft to lumber themselves with a 2008 X.org release for a distribution whose life- cycle mainly covers the year 2010. especially for the sake of a few weeks. #5: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-07-10 11:00:38) (reply to #4) Argh, an off-by-one ;) and you're right with Q3. #6: Piotrek Juzwiak (benderbendingrodriguez) (2009-07-15 18:08:35) I completely agree, the kernel can always be fixed if there is something wrong, anyway there is a lot more testing for this release than for earlier ones i guess so it would be great to include those things in it. Just releasing 2.6.30 will make us more obsolete than other distros. #7: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-07-16 09:30:17) I talked with Jeff yesterday about 2.6.31 and taking it would invalidate one month of beta testing - due to holiday season I would expect it rather late than early. Xorg 7.5 might be another story. #8: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-07-16 11:23:21) (reply to #7) Is that a no for 2.6.31, or just a case of; "it's complicated so we haven't decided yet"? Likewise with X.org, is that a case of; "we'd like to include it, provided they stick to the early august release date"? I do think both are important for the reasons stated above. It is easy to update programs and DE's, but not everyone is confident in being able to update core system components like the kernel and X, especially when it may break updates. If these two components were relatively fresh this wouldn't be a problem, as current is current, however X.org 7.4 will be obsolete by the time 11.2 releases, and 2.6.30 won't be far off that point. #9: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-16 15:25:28) (reply to #8) I just learned from coolo that 2.6.31 migth be still on the table. So, if possible from a time perspective we'll include it - therfor I set PM priority to important. I'll open a new feature for x.org to track them seprately. #10: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2009-07-16 15:45:01) (reply to #9) X.org now tracked in https://features.opensuse.org/306903 #11: jimbo bigcreed (dimble_thricefoon) (2009-07-16 17:38:36) (reply to #10) excellent news about both the kernel and X.org, thank you. #12: Piotrek Juzwiak (benderbendingrodriguez) (2009-07-16 18:01:37) That is great news, let's hope it will be included. I hope kernel hackers got nothing else to do than to work on the new kernel ;) #13: Bob Nestor (bobinmurphy) (2009-07-18 14:42:23) I find it amusing that one reason for not releasing with the latest kernel is that there would be insufficient time to test. With all the testing that was done on 11.1 it was still released with known problems and some were show-stoppers for uses with newer hardware. After testing 11.1 on an old PC I purchased components last November to build a new server, only to discover the ethernet wasn't supported with 11.1. It works under 11.2M2 but to complete construction of the server I'd have to basically rebuild the necessary apps from source. A daunting task and not one that most would consider. The attraction for systems like OpenSUSE is to download, install and run. I might be able to do that by this coming November with OpenSUSE, a full year after purchasing the hardware! By not releasing with the latest kernel the OpenSUSE creates similar problems for new users or users with newer hardware, and that's probably not the reputation OpenSUSE would like to foster. Seems to me the approach should be much shorter release cycles, or releasing with leading edge components and fixing any breakages with patches. #14: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-07-22 23:24:20) (reply to #13) This has been discussed to death already in the mailing lists as to the release cycles and it has been decided that the shorter release cycles cause alot of issues on getting out a quality release on time. You mention your bad luck with 11.1, well that would be one of those releases that had an abbreviated development period. If you need more recent releases of packages there are plenty of updated packages in the Build service. #15: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-07-22 23:26:06) BTW, it looks like Xorg and Xserver will be delayed yet another month. The goal is now for a Sept release but I wouldn't hold my breath. They are already far over due. #16: Kshitij Kulshreshtha (polyconvex) (2009-07-28 21:16:57) Even if Xorg 7.5 is delayed it should be possible to turn on Kernel Modesetting for Intel and Radeon gfx with 2.6.31 in conjunction with xserver 1.6.2+ + #17: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-07-28 23:24:55) + >By the time 11.2 arrives in mid november the 2.6.31 kernel will + already be ten weeks old, + 大変! 10 weeks! The world will be destroyed! + Seriously, the greed for new versions is staggering. It's not like + openSUSE 11.2 would be running 2.6.18-EL5. If you want to risk it, you + can always install KOTD or something. I am with coolo on the safe + side. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/306657